Occupants of CA07, relayed information to control room, from raid team...

[Bridget]

Yes I get that Bridget. But to mistake him for two people?

They didn't. They mistook him for a woman when they looked through the window and reported that. When they went in they found they had made a mistake and reported one dead male (can't recall whether the same officer made both reports but H will). Control misinterpreted that as two bodies, one female, one male. they never reported 3 further bodies upstairs, they reported 5 in total, and control did the maths based on their earlier misinterpretation.

[bloggs and son]

They didn't. They mistook him for a woman when they looked through the window and reported that. When they went in they found they had made a mistake and reported one dead male (can't recall whether the same officer made both reports but H will). Control misinterpreted that as two bodies, one female, one male. they never reported 3 further bodies upstairs, they reported 5 in total, and control did the maths based on their earlier misinterpretation.

I'm sure I read that in the raid team notes somewhere on the forum? I'll see if I can search them out. It would be good to know exactly what was said.

[NewChilledOutHartley]

I have never seen his explanation?

Just if you ever were interested, then see below:

There are two logs which have been produced and are available on this forum. In addition to that there are various other notes and statements.

The chain of communication is as follows:

1. Somebody informed CA07 of 1 dead male and one dead female. I do not know who informed them but I am suggesting that it was Adams who got it from the firearms team.

2. CA07 contacted the information room and informed them about "1 dead male, 1 dead female". The information room (Igor Norman) noted on the information rooms log "1 dead male, 1 dead female", he noted this on the front page of the log and in the table together with the corresponding time.

3. The information room contacted PC West and informed him of "1 dead male, 1 dead female", PC West noted this in his log.

4. Somebody contacted CA07 and told them that all 5 people were found dead. Again I don't know who contacted them but I am suggesting it was Adams.

5. CA07 contacted the information room and informed them that five bodies had been found, the information room noted on their log "all 5 persons found - DEAD".

6. The information room contacted PC West to inform him that five bodies had been found dead.

7. PC West noted on his log "now confirmed a further 3 bodies found - five dead in total".

... ..........................................................
The logs can be found in this thread which corroborates what I have written above: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,732.msg19630.html#msg19630
... ............................................................

Now my first observation that the "1 dead male, 1 dead female" came from a single source. If I am right about Adams informing CA07 then it came from the firearms unit, to Adams, to CA07, to the information room and then to PC West.

My second observation is that the "3 further bodies" is only recorded once by PC West and nobody else. The information regarding the rest of the bodies came from the firearms team, to Adams (if I am correct as previously mentioned), to CA07, to the information room and then to PC West.

... .......................................................
MY OPINION AND THEORY: (which has changed slightly to what I have previously given).

In my opinion Collins saw Ralph through the kitchen window and mistook him for a female, he radioed in to Adams. The firearms unit entered the house and found Ralph's body, the firearms unit radioed it in to Adams.
Adams then, thinking that 1 dead male and one dead female had been found, radioed in to CA07 (1 dead male was first because that was fresher in his mind, being the last communication), CA07 radioed it in to the information room who in turn radioed it in to PC West. Now at this stage in actual fact only one body had been found.
The firearms team then eventually went upstairs and discovered the other four bodies, they radioed this in to Adams, Adams informed CA07 and CA07 informed the information room. The information room noted that five bodies were found.
The information room radioed PC West and told him about the five bodies, PC West mistakenly noted that a further three bodies were found rather than there were five as he thought that two had previously been found when they had not.
... ..........................................................................

[Nuala]

Just if you ever were interested, then see below:

There are two logs which have been produced and are available on this forum. In addition to that there are various other notes and statements.

The chain of communication is as follows:

1. Somebody informed CA07 of 1 dead male and one dead female. I do not know who informed them but I am suggesting that it was Adams who got it from the firearms team.

2. CA07 contacted the information room and informed them about "1 dead male, 1 dead female". The information room (Igor Norman) noted on the information rooms log "1 dead male, 1 dead female", he noted this on the front page of the log and in the table together with the corresponding time.

3. The information room contacted PC West and informed him of "1 dead male, 1 dead female", PC West noted this in his log.

4. Somebody contacted CA07 and told them that all 5 people were found dead. Again I don't know who contacted them but I am suggesting it was Adams.

5. CA07 contacted the information room and informed them that five bodies had been found, the information room noted on their log "all 5 persons found - DEAD".

6. The information room contacted PC West to inform him that five bodies had been found dead.

7. PC West noted on his log "now confirmed a further 3 bodies found - five dead in total".

... ..........................................................
The logs can be found in this thread which corroborates what I have written above: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,732.msg19630.html#msg19630
... ............................................................

Now my first observation that the "1 dead male, 1 dead female" came from a single source. If I am right about Adams informing CA07 then it came from the firearms unit, to Adams, to CA07, to the information room and then to PC West.

My second observation is that the "3 further bodies" is only recorded once by PC West and nobody else. The information regarding the rest of the bodies came from the firearms team, to Adams (if I am correct as previously mentioned), to CA07, to the information room and then to PC West.

... .......................................................
MY OPINION AND THEORY: (which has changed slightly to what I have previously given).

In my opinion Collins saw Ralph through the kitchen window and mistook him for a female, he radioed in to Adams. The firearms unit entered the house and found Ralph's body, the firearms unit radioed it in to Adams.
Adams then, thinking that 1 dead male and one dead female had been found, radioed in to CA07 (1 dead male was first because that was fresher in his mind, being the last communication), CA07 radioed it in to the information room who in turn radioed it in to PC West. Now at this stage in actual fact only one body had been found.
The firearms team then eventually went upstairs and discovered the other four bodies, they radioed this in to Adams, Adams informed CA07 and CA07 informed the information room. The information room noted that five bodies were found.
The information room radioed PC West and told him about the five bodies, PC West mistakenly noted that a further three bodies were found rather than there were five as he thought that two had previously been found when they had not.
... ..........................................................................

You have asked for the official notes substantiating that Mercer's dog was a sniffer dog. That's a fair request.

Where is hard the evidence - documented acknowledgement of these errors - to substantiate your theory? If you can find any such official documents,  then let's see them please

[NewChilledOutHartley]

You have asked for the official notes substantiating that Mercer's dog was a sniffer dog. That's a fair request.

Where is hard the evidence - documented acknowledgement of these errors - to substantiate your theory? If you can find any such official documents,  then let's see them please

The clue is in the words "MY OPINION AND THEORY".

I'm not presenting this as fact.  Where I have referred to a document(s), I have provided you with a link to a location where you can view them.

[Nuala]

The clue is in the words "MY OPINION AND THEORY".

I'm not presenting this as fact.  Where I have referred to a document(s), I have provided you with a link to a location where you can view them.

Thank you for clarifying this once again. My opinion and theory is that it is most unlikely that huge Nevill, at 6'4" tall and with his pyjama trousers pulled to his knees would have been mistaken for a female.

[NewChilledOutHartley]

Thank you for clarifying this once again. My opinion and theory is that it is most unlikely that huge Nevill, at 6'4" tall and with his pyjama trousers pulled to his knees would have been mistaken for a female.

Oh okay then, I'm glad you got that of your chest, thanks. 

[bloggs and son]

The clue is in the words "MY OPINION AND THEORY".

I'm not presenting this as fact.  Where I have referred to a document(s), I have provided you with a link to a location where you can view them.

Thank you for paraphasing the notes Hartley. I accept your theory for what it is.

[tonyb]

Surely, somebody should be able to make a molehill out of a mountain now that they have this to work on?

Your wasting your time with the " no marks where the rifle was/wasn't in my opinion. The photo seems to show a shadow on the left knee/calf that may be what you could describe as a mark left by the rifle.

[Patti]

Nevill's call to police look carefully at this because it is a 999 call.

[NewChilledOutHartley]

Nevill's call to police look carefully at this because it is a 999 call.

Is this a wind up? 

What is it that you seem to think this attachment is Patti?

[susan]

Hi Patti  please tell me what I have to look at

[Nuala]

Is this a wind up? 

What is it that you seem to think this attachment is Patti?

Don't be so rude, Hartley, Patti is as entitled to express her views here as you are.
This habit of yours of sneering at women needs to stop.

[Roch]

Your wasting your time with the " no marks where the rifle was/wasn't in my opinion. The photo seems to show a shadow on the left knee/calf that may be what you could describe as a mark left by the rifle.

Tony, I agree.  Even if there was only a mole there, it would seem to fit with the CCRC's approach to this case, that a mole would be sufficient to dismiss such grounds.

[NewChilledOutHartley]

Don't be so rude, Hartley, Patti is as entitled to express her views here as you are.
This habit of yours of sneering at women needs to stop.

Go away Keira and stop trying to cause trouble, I've replied to Patti, asking if she is making a joke, I'm not being rude at all.

You are no longer a moderator so please leave me alone.