element of suprise eliminated by dogs in house and outbuilldings

[mike tesko]

Can I also just draw peoples attention to the misleading nature of this particular comment.

The GPO was listening into the phone from 5:50am and heard dogs barking. Unfortunately what is failed to be reported is that at 5:25am onwards, the police are making challenges using a loud hailer to anybody who might be in the house (which was met with no response by the way).

You can check this out by looking at the logs which are included in this thread:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,732.0.html

Having now been furnished with that information, why do you think that a dog would be barking? 

Lets get the record straight...

Messages passed to the control room from the scene were made by the occupants CA07, which was the patrol car that Bews, Myall and Saxby arrived at the scene in, at about 3:48am. This patrol car was parked alongside the farm cottages in Pages lane, and therefore they could not possibly have heard the dog barking somewhere inside the farmhouse. If so, how?

[grahameb]

Lets get the record straight...

Messages passed to the control room from the scene were made by the occupants CA07, which was the patrol car that Bews, Myall and Saxby arrived at the scene in, at about 3:48am. This patrol car was parked alongside the farm cottages in Pages lane, and therefore they could not possibly have heard the dog barking somewhere inside the farmhouse. If so, how?

In fact just like they could not possibly hear the shots because of this either?

[mike tesko]

I am not saying that when the two police officers went into the grounds of the farmhouse with Jeremy at around 4am, that they could not hear the dog in the outbuilding barking, but I have my doubt6s that PS Saxby who was at that time sat in the patrol car in pages lane would have heard that dog barking, let alone any dog barking from inside the farmhouse?

[mike tesko]

I am not saying that when the two police officers went into the grounds of the farmhouse with Jeremy at around 4am, that they could not hear the dog in the outbuilding barking, but I have my doubt6s that PS Saxby who was at that time sat in the patrol car in pages lane would have heard that dog barking, let alone any dog barking from inside the farmhouse?

Lets also set the record straight...

When the operator reported that she could hear a dog barking when she broke into the line at whf, it is important to note that she did not report hearing two dogs barking, or in other words she did not, could not hear any dog barking that was outside in an outbuilding?

[maggie]

Okay, here is some more food for thought.

It is alleged that any mention of this sighting was removed and edited out of statements etc, and that Jeremy was in too much shock apparently to realise the importance of this alleged sighting until some years later when Mike pointed it out to him.

Have I got that right? Please somebody correct me if I am wrong.

_________________________________________________________________________

Now this is an extract taken from Jeremys official website, how does that fit in with the stories being presented on this forum? Take particular notice that the incident is brought up at trial!!!
Link to full page: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/alibis-1

Bews, Myall & Jeremy see movement in the window (after 3.45am)

When Jeremy and the police arrived at White House Farm they saw movement in the master bedroom. Below is an extract from PS Bews trial transcript:

Rivlin: "Do you remember at some stage early on, this happened that one of you Police Officers said that you thought you could see a shadow and you all jumped?"

Bews: "Yes, that is when we first went to the house with Mr Bamber. We had gone round what I thought was the back. We had seen the kitchen door with the light on. We then went into a field which is at the side of the farm house and went went round to where what is - - I believe the front door is and above that is a window. As we moved away I thought we saw something else move, a shadow, something like that. We looked up and after looking for a couple of minutes I was satisfied that it was a - - perhaps a part in the glass that just shone the light slightly as you looked at it."

Rivlin: "It could have been a trick of the light?"

Bews: "I think it was a trick of the light"

It has been stated in a recent interview by Sgt Bews that the movement was just 'the moon' Howver, Saxby's police statement maintains that PS Bews along with PC Myall and Jeremy "came running back from the direction of the farmhouse and PS Bews contacted information room and requested armed assistance and gave a situation report" Did Sgt Bews really call the firearms team out as a result of seeing a reflection of the moon? During the 80's firearms teams would only have come out if the police were seriously threatened by armed persons. If this was a trick of the light - what light source caused it? It was still dark at this time and the moon was on the other side of the house. This was a lone house in a rural area there was no light from external sources. In addition Geoffrey Rivlin QC clearly did not question the witness properly, in this extract the Defence barrister is actually making the suggestion that the witness didn't see a shadow at all but a trick of the light. One of the key features of miscarriages of justice is often poor legal representation.

Patti/Bridget I found this old post.

[Bridget]

Patti/Bridget I found this old post.

Well found Maggie! It's interesting that at first he says it was a shadow (a dark thing) and then its light reflecting. It seems he doesn't really know what he saw. It'd be interesting to see Myall and Saxby's statements wouldn't it?

[Patti]

Patti/Bridget I found this old post.

Awwww maggie, your a star!!!! Thank you...That clears that up, but I still want to know if it was a quarter moon...I suspect it was and being south it would have been shaded from the right...as up north its on the left...lol I will await the weather report for that night...

What I can't understand is why this was pushed by the defence....We have Bews saying Jeremy saw a shadow then twice he says it was Steve Myall....neither was cross-examined about it....which it so darn vital....to the jury...Thanks Maggie. ******** 

[Bridget]

Awwww maggie, your a star!!!! Thank you...That clears that up, but I still want to know if it was a quarter moon...I suspect it was and being south it would have been shaded from the right...as up north its on the left...

Um... What???

[mike tesko]

I know this might be going off the topic of the thread here, but do you not find it strange that the operator was able to patch into the open line? The phone in the kitchen was photographed off its cradle.  The line has been stated as "open". Now it is a fact that the person who initiates a call must be the one to terminate it. So what was the last call made from WHF? If it was to JB why did he describe the line as going dead. This could only happen if the handset was returned to the cradle at WHF or NB depressed the buttons in the cradle. Does that fit with JB's description of his fathers phone call. I thought that JB said the line "went dead". That cannot be possible if the operator was able to "evesdrop" the line. For that to be possible a call had to be made from WHF which was not terminated from within WHF, either by hanging up or depressing the buttons on the cradle. If anybody thinks that his reasoning is flawed please comment because this is causing me great trouble in believing JB's version of events.

Jeremy also said that when "he tried to phone his father back, he kept getting the engaged tone", so this obviously has some effect on your theory, I guess...