Post Mortem

[Bridget]

Hello subject Bridget. May I just say, "WOW!" He passed because the LD test was inaccurate? In spite of the fact that he passed on ALL questions? He must be some kanda superman to do that? Hmm. wonder if you would hold the same argument regarding LD tests if he had "failed"? Now there's a psychological point to ponder.

Not really, since they are inaccurate it would be equally meaningless. Polygraph machines detect minute physiological changes in a person. The results are then interpreted by the tester. The problem is in the interpretation - there is a huge variation in natural responses both when people are truthful and when they're not, and also across the population. In other words, at one end of the scale you have people who will show little or no physiological change when lying through their teeth, and at the other end, people who show marked responses when truthfully answering what day of the week it is. There are also those who are able to suppress changes in things like heart rate and breathing. Because of this a control test is done prior to the main test, but the end results are still a matter of interpretation, and so fallible. I've read that some studies have found the accuracy of the test as low as 61%, only slightly better than pure chance.

[bloggs and son]

Not really, since they are inaccurate it would be equally meaningless. Polygraph machines detect minute physiological changes in a person. The results are then interpreted by the tester. The problem is in the interpretation - there is a huge variation in natural responses both when people are truthful and when they're not, and also across the population. In other words, at one end of the scale you have people who will show little or no physiological change when lying through their teeth, and at the other end, people who show marked responses when truthfully answering what day of the week it is. There are also those who are able to suppress changes in things like heart rate and breathing. Because of this a control test is done prior to the main test, but the end results are still a matter of interpretation, and so fallible. I've read that some studies have found the accuracy of the test as low as 61%, only slightly better than pure chance.

Wow! subject Bridget is that so? So if you were banged up for years in clink for a crime you didn't commit. you would absolutely refuse to take a polygraph test in order to show people that you are telling the truth? I reckon you would be really pissed if you were convicted on the slimmest of evidence and that there were many people saying that you deserve to be where you are?

[Patti]

Good morning All,,,,,,does anyone have a copy/video of Jeremy Bambers first televised interview after the murders.?  A lot can be gained from these interviews,as in a lot of cases,one can reach a conclusion just by watching their body language and also how they interpret a crime.
I'm sure most of us have studied some of these interviews and possibly made up our minds there and then whether that person appears to be guilty or not.
I remember the Colin Stagg scenario,and saying to myself " poor sod ",it wasn't him.
We've all seen the blubbering " crocodile tears " of some,which immediately tell you,well me,anyway,that they're guilty.
There's a heck of a difference in someone appearing devastated, and being guilty.

Hi Lookout, I don't think there is a video....If there is I would be interested to see it.

[bloggs and son]

Good morning All,,,,,,does anyone have a copy/video of Jeremy Bambers first televised interview after the murders.?  A lot can be gained from these interviews,as in a lot of cases,one can reach a conclusion just by watching their body language and also how they interpret a crime.
I'm sure most of us have studied some of these interviews and possibly made up our minds there and then whether that person appears to be guilty or not.
I remember the Colin Stagg scenario,and saying to myself " poor sod ",it wasn't him.
We've all seen the blubbering " crocodile tears " of some,which immediately tell you,well me,anyway,that they're guilty.
There's a heck of a difference in someone appearing devastated, and being guilty.

Body language? Do you think the original jurors used that instead of looking at the evidence? Well let's spin the bones again folks and see what they tell us this time round.

[Roch]

The tests done in 2011 were to see whether in 2011 his apparent anodyne composure was down to him deceiving either himself or the assessor.

There is another 13 odd pages to the report.

He passed the LD test because LD tests are inaccurate.

The doctor is quite clear about what in his professional opinion, the 2011 tests indicate:

“These findings suggest it is hard to sustain the view that Jeremy Bamber is so expert in deceptive self-presentation as to maintain this front for over a variety of different assessors, different assessment instruments and different times”

In my opinion your statement in red above is plain daft.  You cannot know this.  It is merely your opinion, brought about in part by the inconvenience of an NDI result, in relation to your own views on the case.

I would go further to suggest that in my opinion a lot of people's views on the case have been influenced by third party info, spreading A.E. anecdotes about Jeremy Bamber.  A 'clean up' job has been done on any waverers who were there for the taking.  But we will never see those anecdotes on the forum.

[lookout]

Had the trial been held in the Scottish courts,the verdict would have been " not proven".
There was no mention of " beyond reasonable doubt ",so therefore,Jeremy Bamber should have been released on bail until such times that a concrete verdict was established rather than on circumstantial and hearsay. Somebody was in a hurry to convict him,that's for sure. A crumb of red paint on a moderator which appeared a month later after his first arrest.? Sorry,I don't buy that.
You know why.? Because I don't believe that a moderator was used at all. Unless the ballistics expert knows different,as he/she would have known that a bullet would have had additional marks on it had a moderator been used.
I haven't seen any reference made of this difference.

[Roch]

I think jb is guilty and knew i would be savaged for it

Sagar, do you not think this is a bit melodramatic? Chill out. 

[JackiePreece]

It's amazing when antis on this forum use the argument 'he's guilty because a jury decided he is'
These people cannot come up with reasonable argument that Jeremy Bamber definitely must be guilty

You look at the Sam Hallam case who was convicted by a jury on the weakest of evidence and I don't think that argument should ever be used here when debating miscarriage of justice cases

Juries make mistakes all the time and often because they are prevented from seeing all the evidence that should be available to them

I wonder how those jury members felt last night and what a terrible burden feeling you were responsible for a young man spending some of the best years of his life locked up

Again someone should be held accountable for the withholding of vital evidence that could have saved this young man for seven years of hell

Someone should be hanging their head in shame today

[bloggs and son]

Had the trial been held in the Scottish courts,the verdict would have been " not proven".
There was no mention of " beyond reasonable doubt ",so therefore,Jeremy Bamber should have been released on bail until such times that a concrete verdict was established rather than on circumstantial and hearsay. Somebody was in a hurry to convict him,that's for sure. A crumb of red paint on a moderator which appeared a month later after his first arrest.? Sorry,I don't buy that.
You know why.? Because I don't believe that a moderator was used at all. Unless the ballistics expert knows different,as he/she would have known that a bullet would have had additional marks on it had a moderator been used.
I haven't seen any reference made of this difference.

Hello lookout. I believe the gun had no silencer on it and the crimescene if it was as the cops say it was then there is absolutely no evidence that Bamber was there. Let someone show me proof that Bamber was there and I will believe it. But all I have heard is wild paranoid speculation from those who think he is guilty. Show me PROOF. It's no good saying he was "found guilty in a court of law". That it seems is what they fall back on when they can't answer a certain question. The courts of law are a mess and we know it. MOJ's are not just an occasional mistake made by the British justice system. Unfortunately they are remarkably common. And Jeremy Bamber has suffered 27 years of MOJ. It is about time his case was reviewed from the ground up.

[Nuala]

show me the evidence his sister did it. She was a mild schizophrenic and thats it.

Hi Sagar,

It would be helpful if you would attribute your sources for this claim, as there is much evidence that Sheila had a history of violent and psychotic conduct.

Sheila is documented to have had severe psychotic episodes, during which:

Sheila became so violent that her friend, Freddie, was afraid of her and feared she might harm those in her flat

Freddie feared Sheila might harm her boys.

Sheila accused two doctors of trying to poison her

Sheila hallucinated and heard voices, she believed that God sat opposite her and spoke to her

At times Sheila failed to recognise her family.

Sheila believed that she and her family and boys were possessed by the devil.

Sheila believed her six year old sons might harm and rape her.

Sheila was concerned that she might have sex with her six year olds.

Sheila believed at times that she was a white witch.

Sheila had to be sectioned and forcibly hospitalised.

Care of Sheila's twins was removed from Sheila 95% of the time.



* Freddie's statement, Sheila's psychiatrist's (Dr Ferguson's) statement and Colin Caffell's book provide
   verification of the above.

[bloggs and son]

Not really, since they are inaccurate it would be equally meaningless.

Bridget. It is so refreshing to see someone stick so firmly to their views even if they had been locked up for years. Prison guvernor: "Bridget, we have manaqed to get you a polygraph test so you can show the general public that you are innocent".
Bridget: "No thank you sir they are not accurate I will stay in my cell and shut up and admit to my crime so as to give the family peace at last".

[Bridget]

The doctor is quite clear about what in his professional opinion, the 2011 tests indicate:

In my opinion your statement in red above is plain daft.  You cannot know this.  It is merely your opinion, brought about in part by the inconvenience of an NDI result, in relation to your own views on the case.

I would go further to suggest that in my opinion a lot of people's views on the case have been influenced by third party info, spreading A.E. anecdotes about Jeremy Bamber.  A 'clean up' job has been done on any waverers who were there for the taking.  But we will never see those anecdotes on the forum.

Again, Egan was not commenting on the results of the LD test, all he was saying is that JBs apparent demeanour is not a facade. Why don't you try emailing him and ask what he thinks about LD test if it concerns you?

[bloggs and son]

Again, Egan was not commenting on the results of the LD test, all he was saying is that JBs apparent demeanour is not a facade. Why don't you try emailing him and ask what he thinks about LD test if it concerns you?

I will take the LD machine and reverse the contacts and turn it into an electric shock machine. Much more effective in getting to the truth if you ask me.

[Bridget]

I will take the LD machine and reverse the contacts and turn it into an electric shock machine. Much more effective in getting to the truth if you ask me.

You're probably right.

[Patti]

Hi Sagar,

It would be helpful if you would attribute your sources for this claim, as there is much evidence that Sheila had a history of violent and psychotic conduct.

Sheila is documented to have had severe psychotic episodes, during which:

Sheila became so violent that her friend, Freddie, was afraid of her and feared she might harm those in her flat

Freddie feared Sheila might harm her boys.

Sheila accused two doctors of trying to poison her

Sheila hallucinated and heard voices, she believed that God sat opposite her and spoke to her

At times Sheila failed to recognise her family.

Sheila believed that she and her family and boys were possessed by the devil.

Sheila believed her six year old sons might harm and rape her.

Sheila was concerned that she might have sex with her six year olds.

Sheila believed at times that she was a white witch.

Sheila had to be sectioned and forcibly hospitalised.

Care of Sheila's twins was removed from Sheila 95% of the time.



* Freddie's statement, Sheila's psychiatrist's (Dr Ferguson's) statement and Colin Caffell's book provide
   verification of the above.

Excellent post Keira......