Post Mortem

[Bridget]

I was under the impression that it was Jeremy that had refused to be downgraded from a category A prisoner, due to the fact he still proclaims he is innocent....

I think that is inaccurate. Category has nothing to do with proclaiming innocence.

[JackiePreece]

Earlier in the day Mr Blaxland told the court that a miscarriage of justice was brought about by 'a combination of manifestly unreliable identification evidence, the apparent failure of his own alibi, failure by police properly to investigate his alibi and non-disclosure by the prosecution of material that could have supported his case.'


Re the Sam Hallam case note the remarks non-disclosure by the prosecution (Julie Mugford deal to collect money on Jeremys conviction) that could have supported his case

When thousands of documents still held under PII are released and the missing photos etc etc etc Jeremy will be walking out of that appeal court and unlike other murderers trying to get their convictions overturned Jeremy has NO PREVIOUS RECORD OF BEING VIOLENT

Let's hope Simon gets the right result

[Patti]

I think that is inaccurate. Category has nothing to do with proclaiming innocence.

Sorry the quote was from Lomax: Lomax writes that Bamber has had several psychological assessments, and has reportedly been found not to have traits suggestive of psychopathy. He remains a Category A prisoner because he has refused to accept his guilt.[17] His lawyers arranged for him to undergo a lie detector test in 2007, which he passed.[18]

[JackiePreece]

I will have to ask Neil tomorrow if the common factor in every MOJ is non disclosure of evidence

If the ccrc are reading this it's an absolute joke

[Bridget]

Sorry the quote was from Lomax: Lomax writes that Bamber has had several psychological assessments, and has reportedly been found not to have traits suggestive of psychopathy. He remains a Category A prisoner because he has refused to accept his guilt.[17] His lawyers arranged for him to undergo a lie detector test in 2007, which he passed.[18]

Hi Patti, what I'm saying is that he wouldn't have to refuse a downgrade in order to continue to protest his innocence - whether they would grant a downgrade without him confessing is a different question

[JackiePreece]

Patti

Patti if you are talking about Scott Lomax

Scott Lomax is a friend of Jeremys and is up to date with most aspects of the case

[Roch]

As far as I can tell, Egan's only interest was in whether or not it would be safe to downgrade JBs Cat A status, he makes no comment on guilt or innocence. Interesting that unless I haven't found it yet, JB has only publicised 2 of 3 paragraphs of Egan's 14 page report.

So does that equate to the only interest in the psychological tests themselves as being whether or not JB should be downgraded?  The tests are designed purely for that purpose only... but not to assess self deception in general?  Perhaps if we can find the missing paragraph, it will indicate that he is a self deceptive psychopath then?   If your argument is that he passed the lie detector test because he deceives him self, then i suggest a psychological test which indicates a lack of self deception is a tad relevant.

Professor Vincent Egan, BSc. (Hons).,Ph.D., D. Clin. Psy. Chartered Clinical Psychologist, Chartered Forensic Psychologist, Senior Lecturer in Forensic Psychology, University of Leicester, recently carried out a psychological assessment of Jeremy Bamber for a category A risk assessment review and he stated in his 14 page report:

 “Jeremy has been previously assessed using the PCL-R and found non-psychopathic. My own assessment also found he did not meet caseness for clinical psychopathy, or even mild psychopathy.” He goes on to state “He did not meet caseness for any of the personality disorder dimensions.”

It has also been further suggested that Jeremy Bamber has used “Impression Management” to dupe the assessor into believing he has no psychopathy, nevertheless Professor Egan applied further tests to take this into account and noted:

“To examine whether Jeremy was exaggerating how he presented himself, he also completed the BIDR (Paulus, 1998). On this measure Jeremy was within the low-normal range for impression management and self-deception enhancement. These results suggest he was not presenting himself in an excessively anodyne way to bias the assessor.”

Professor Egan comments, “These findings suggest it is hard to sustain the view that Jeremy Bamber is so expert in deceptive self-presentation as to maintain this front for over a variety of different assessors, different assessment instruments and different times” 

The assessment concludes with “Dangerous violent persons tend to be angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control, and none of these qualities appear to reflect Mr Bamber. Quite what the motive would be for something like the index offence being carried out by Mr Bamber again is very speculative, as is the proposition in the first place.”

[Roch]

“These findings suggest it is hard to sustain the view that Jeremy Bamber is so expert in deceptive self-presentation as to maintain this front for over a variety of different assessors, different assessment instruments and different times”

You will also be aware that our client has been requesting the leave of a number of Home Secretary’s since 1991 to take the polygraph test.

·     Did you shoot your family on August 7th 1985? – No
·     Did you shoot five members of your family with an Anshutz rifle? No
·     Were you present inside the house when they were shot with an Anshutz rifle? No
·     Did you shoot your father Neville? – No
·     Did you shoot your mother June? – No
·     Did you shoot your sister Sheila Caffell? – No
·     Did you shoot your twin nephews Daniel and Nicholas? – No
·     Did you climb out of a window of your parent’s home after shooting your family?  No
·     Did you shoot your family in your father’s home? – No
·     Did PC Bews radio in a report of seeing someone in an upstairs window around 4am on the morning of the shootings? – Yes
·     Did you pay a professional hit man to shoot your family? – No

[Nuala]

If your argument is that he passed the lie detector test because he deceives him self, then i suggest a psychological test which indicates a lack of self deception is a tad relevant.

I agree. An interesting thread and well argued, thanks, Rochford and Bridget.

[sagar]

Why all the talk of lie detectors?

They are inadmissable in court, jb could take a thousand tests it makes not one iota of difference.
I agree with Bridget, he should shut up, admit what he has done and stop wasting peoples time.

He should spare a thought for what he is putting his family through,  they have suffered enough.

Right, how is everyone? All good and well?

[mertol22]

Why all the talk of lie detectors?

They are inadmissable in court, jb could take a thousand tests it makes not one iota of difference.
I agree with Bridget, he should shut up, admit what he has done and stop wasting peoples time.

He should spare a thought for what he is putting his family through,  they have suffered enough.

Right, how is everyone? All good and well?

You sound so sure he is guilty , i guess here in Lincolnshire we are plain dumb not sharing your view given only a fraction of the documents have come to light you must know what the ones witheld contain.

[Nuala]

Why all the talk of lie detectors?

They are inadmissable in court, jb could take a thousand tests it makes not one iota of difference.
I agree with Bridget, he should shut up, admit what he has done and stop wasting peoples time.

He should spare a thought for what he is putting his family through,  they have suffered enough.

Right, how is everyone? All good and well?

Why are you so keen to close down the debate, Sagar? It seems as though these results worry you!

[Nuala]

You sound so sure he is guilty , i guess here in Lincolnshire we are plain dumb not sharing your view given only a fraction of the documents have come to light you must know what the ones witheld contain.

Nice one, Mertol 

[Roch]

Why all the talk of lie detectors?...it makes not one iota of difference

It certainly makes an iota of difference in my mind.

he should shut up, admit what he has done and stop wasting peoples time.

That would be a bit daft, if he has not done it

He should spare a thought for what he is putting his family through,  they have suffered enough.

Or you should spare a thought for what they have put him through

[mertol22]

Nice one, Mertol 

Always on hand to equalize the odds keira..