Author Topic: Post Mortem  (Read 33442 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Post Mortem
« on: May 15, 2012, 11:43:AM »
Information gathered from ( BAMBER CCRC -addendum-06-06-2004 doc. )

" A post mortem photograph of Ralph Neville Bamber's right arm,evidencing lacerations caused by fingernails,should have been disclosed by the Prosecuting Authorities to the Applicant as part of their primary disclosure obligation pursuant to section 3( 1 )(a ) Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996,at very least for the Appellate Procedures in 2002.
It follows the failure to do so at the original trial denied the Applicant and his then Learned Counsel,vital missed opportunities at indeed advocating the proposition that the said murders were committed by a third party.

The fingernail lacerations are consistent with a person with fingernails between 5mm-6mm long,since the laceration indentations into the skin are measured.

June Bamber had one such laceration on her arm,which was consistent with a single fingernail indentation into the skin.
There is no mention of such in the post-mortem statement of Professor Vanezis,although it is conceded that the said photograph was indeed amongst the Jury Bundle photographic album.

It is submitted that the discovery of the post-mortem photographs of " Ralph Neville Bamber's " arm,must be constituted as fresh evidence not available to the Defence at either Trial or Appellate proceedings.     Had such been available,it would have been included amongst the albums marked " Jury Bundle ",and would by the obvious nature of the said photographs ( even to the untrained eye ) raised serious questions from the Defence.

Compound such failure by the clear failure from Professor Vanezis to have included such in his report/witness statement has for the purpose of these submissions mislead the Court and renders per se the conviction unsafe.

Whoever attacked Ralph Bamber had fingernails at least 5mm-6mm long,and certainly no longer,but positively no shorter.  Had the fingernails been shorter,they could not have inflicted the wounds on the right arm and a similar wound on the arm of June Bamber.

There now being the clearest  of evidence that not only was there bruising,but lacerations consistent with fingernail indentations----------similar in shape,form,length and diameter in both the arm of June Bamber and Ralph Bamber,and with the knowledge and submission that the Applicant Jeremy Bamber has always maintained short fingernails,the said photograph of Ralph Bamber must be adduced as exculpatory evidence and it follows should be considered as Fresh Evidence in any referral.
 

NewChilledOutHartley

  • Guest
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 11:49:AM »
Perhaps you could explain more about the source, or post the document (or link).

It's worth noting that the post mortem carried out by Dr Vanezis does not conclude that any wounds were caused by fingernails.

This sounds like defence propaganda, or rather a defence or campaign team authored piece?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 11:50:AM by NewChilledOutHartley »

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 11:58:AM »
Hi Lookout. I think these are the marks you are on about. You would have thought that this photograph would be important for forensics to look at. Because, it was said that the marks were made by the muzzle of the gun....I doubt that, because there are too many of them....therefore it could well be fingernails...It has been suggest by a few on here that think so.... :)


Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 12:00:PM »
When you crouch your fingers up, they are similar to those marks....with the little finger missing.  :)

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 12:13:PM »
Hi Patti,,,,it is indeed a feasible explanation. During forensic examination,the underneath of the nails wasn't/weren't examined,which I find rather odd.  If they were,I haven't seen any such results.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 12:21:PM »
NCOH,,,,it was obtained from ( doc ) REGINA. studiolegaleinternazionale.com.bamber.

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 12:24:PM »
Hi Patti,,,,it is indeed a feasible explanation. During forensic examination,the underneath of the nails wasn't/weren't examined,which I find rather odd.  If they were,I haven't seen any such results.

Hi Lookout, the pathologist claimed her hands were clean, i think. This is why a lot of people think she may have cleansed herself afterwards. There is no proof of that of course. The bathroom light upstairs was on, so someone had used it and not turned the light off. Then in the shower room downstairs the shower head was hanging down....AE believes that Jeremy could have showered before he left....

Nothing is straight forward in this case....but there is also a scratch...on his arm.  I do think they are fingermarks.  I can't see Nevill just leaving his arm there, to be hit by the muzzle end of the gun...Were these marks done prior to death or after...surely they can determine that....:)

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 12:27:PM »
The other thing is of course if those marks were from a muzzle as opposed to fingernails, there certainly was no silencer on the gun....:)

NewChilledOutHartley

  • Guest
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 12:28:PM »
NCOH,,,,it was obtained from ( doc ) REGINA. studiolegaleinternazionale.com.bamber.

Thank you.

That site is linked to Jeremy's former legal representative Giovanni Di Stefano.

Unless the claims can be substantiated in some manner then they are not really worth the paper they are written on (or screen they are typed on  :-\ ).

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2012, 12:34:PM »
Thank you.

That site is linked to Jeremy's former legal representative Giovanni Di Stefano.

Unless the claims can be substantiated in some manner then they are not really worth the paper they are written on (or screen they are typed on  :-\ ).

I am sure some crime scientist or crime photographer would be able to tell what the marks are...or give an opinion as they do.. :)

NewChilledOutHartley

  • Guest
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2012, 12:38:PM »
I am sure some crime scientist or crime photographer would be able to tell what the marks are...or give an opinion as they do.. :)

I'm sure the pathologist who carried out the post mortems is likely to be the most reliable source of opinion?

Also bearing in mind that at the time the post mortems were carried out, Sheila was the accepted guilty party.


Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2012, 12:40:PM »
Patti,,,,,Had there been any marks,bruises,wounds,cuts,scratches,or any sign of Jeremy having been in a struggle/scuffle,you can bet your bottom dollar that JM would have immediately reported same,as her aim,along with everyone elses was to get him convicted,and at that point,she didn't miss a trick.

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2012, 12:49:PM »
I'm sure the pathologist who carried out the post mortems is likely to be the most reliable source of opinion?

Also bearing in mind that at the time the post mortems were carried out, Sheila was the accepted guilty party.

He never elaborated on it did he? All I read is that the marks to his arm could have been made from the muzzle of the gun.....if so, why aren't the defence using this photograph as new evidence...as opposed to the burn marks on Nevill's back? :)

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2012, 12:52:PM »
Patti,,,,,Had there been any marks,bruises,wounds,cuts,scratches,or any sign of Jeremy having been in a struggle/scuffle,you can bet your bottom dollar that JM would have immediately reported same,as her aim,along with everyone elses was to get him convicted,and at that point,she didn't miss a trick.

lookout, i will have to read the Pathologist reports again...No one saw any marks on Jeremy and it was summer time. AE purposely looked and saw nothing. Then again Shelia had no marks on her either....both to me were clean..... :-\

NewChilledOutHartley

  • Guest
Re: Post Mortem
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2012, 12:54:PM »
He never elaborated on it did he? All I read is that the marks to his arm could have been made from the muzzle of the gun.....if so, why aren't the defence using this photograph as new evidence...as opposed to the burn marks on Nevill's back? :)

The defence aren't using the photograph as new evidence because the claims have not been supported by any tangible piece of evidence or expert opinion.

Dr Vanezis did go into a certain amount of detail as to the shape of the object likely to have caused the wounds, I forget the exact wording but it was something along the lines of 'the edge of a curved linear object'. I don't think he actually suggested the rifle barrel as being the cause, I'd have to look it up to be sure.