Bamber guilty, surely!

[mike tesko]

and which, if any, still exists? I'm not too hot on legal proceedings but if it can proved that the photos were dealt with in this way would it stll be possible to rule it as some form of mistrial and have him acquitted?

The two schedules (MASTER COPY and COURT ALBUM) which were created for the purpose of this deception do still exist, yes...

I have posted them elsewhere on the forum, but I will endeavour to post them here later today, along with anything I can find about PC Birds (SOC) role in all of this, including his court transcript and witness statements. I feel sure that Jeremy's current legal team could get the case taken back to the court of appeal based on this argument alone...

[ajross]

Well...

many of the missing 358 photographs prove the police did move many things, not only Sheila's hand...

They moved bodies of the victims,  they moved exhibits like the gun, and bullet cases, and furniture around - and whilst they were doing this, and afterwards, they took photographs...

There is no doubt at all police stage managed the crime scene, yet Jeremy Bamber stands convicted of having done so, despite photographs existing which are in police possession which prove he did not...

I have only seen the few photographs available and can see that Sheila's body was moved, I pointed it out to my wife (who thinks I am becoming a little bit obsessed) and she spotted it immediately and has no interest in the case! I am assuming though that 'The senior investigating officers album' no longer exists, it would be foolish of them to have kept it for just the reasons we would all like to see it.

[mike tesko]

Mike - Do you know which file it would have been that you saw when you went to see Ewen Smith as discussed in another thread, and saw the photo of Sheila on the bed?

Yes, of course I do - the albums were headed with the title "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM of photographs, Strictly Confidential..."

[mike tesko]

I have only seen the few photographs available and can see that Sheila's body was moved, I pointed it out to my wife (who thinks I am becoming a little bit obsessed) and she spotted it immediately and has no interest in the case! I am assuming though that 'The senior investigating officers album' no longer exists, it would be foolish of them to have kept it for just the reasons we would all like to see it.

Well, THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM certainly existed back in 2004, when I saw it at Ewen Smith's office in Birmingham, and later when I saw an edited version of the same when I visited offices in London once the case was transferred to GDS. There is also now available a typed schedule produced by COLP as part of their 1991 / 92 investigation which proves that more than 223 photographs were taken. Then of course there are the negatives which the CCRC have and which Jeremy's current legal team have now got access to, albeit some of the negatives are missing, or have been cut up and have disappeared off the face of the earth...

[mike tesko]

Although the official view is that police officers did not move, touch or disturb anything at all at the scene, except for DI Cook moving Sheila's hand to allow PC Bird (SOC) to take pictures of a bloodied impression on the front lower part of Sheila's nightdress, the stark truth of the matter is that police moved almost everything and anything - in particular they moved Sheila's body from the bed to the floor, they moved June Bambers body from the bed to the floor, and they moved Ralph Bambers body from a sitting position on a chair behind an internal kitchen door onto the kitchen floor, and they put his heavily bloodstanied head in to a coal bucket...

[mike tesko]

Although the official view is that police officers did not move, touch or disturb anything at all at the scene, except for DI Cook moving Sheila's hand to allow PC Bird (SOC) to take pictures of a bloodied impression on the front lower part of Sheila's nightdress, the stark truth of the matter is that police moved almost everything and anything - in particular they moved Sheila's body from the bed to the floor, they moved June Bambers body from the bed to the floor, and they moved Ralph Bambers body from a sitting position on a chair behind an internal kitchen door onto the kitchen floor, and they put his heavily bloodstanied head in to a coal bucket...

Police moved the gun off the body, back onto the body, off the body and back onto the body, and PC Bird (SOC) then took pictures...

[mike tesko]

Police moved the gun off the body, back onto the body, off the body and back onto the body, and PC Bird (SOC) then took pictures...

Members of the six man firearms raid team viewed pictures taken by PC Bird, when they attended a de - brief later that evening, and they were encouraged by pressure applied by senior officers to adopt the positions of the bodies involving Ralph, June and Sheila, which Bird had later photographed the positions of, as the positions the bodies had actually been found in, upon entry into the premises...

[ajross]

Well, THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM certainly existed back in 2004, when I saw it at Ewen Smith's office in Birmingham, and later when I saw an edited version of the same when I visited offices in London once the case was transferred to GDS. There is also now available a typed schedule produced by COLP as part of their 1991 / 92 investigation which proves that more than 223 photographs were taken. Then of course there are the negatives which the CCRC have and which Jeremy's current legal team have now got access to, albeit some of the negatives are missing, or have been cut up and have disappeared off the face of the earth...

I'm demonstrating my overall ignorance of the case as I am still trawling through stuff but who is/was Ewen Smith? and would there not be any other record of the senior investigating officers album? If you look at two photos of Sheila with the gun on her body the most striking thing to me is actually the state of the bed! And to some degree i think this may back up the body on the bed theory as somebody could have absentmindedly tided it after taking the body off the bed. It is I believe an instinctive action for many to throw the duvet or covers back over the bed.

[jon]

I'm demonstrating my overall ignorance of the case as I am still trawling through stuff but who is/was Ewen Smith? and would there not be any other record of the senior investigating officers album? If you look at two photos of Sheila with the gun on her body the most striking thing to me is actually the state of the bed! And to some degree i think this may back up the body on the bed theory as somebody could have absentmindedly tided it after taking the body off the bed. It is I believe an instinctive action for many to throw the duvet or covers back over the bed.

Ewan Smith former solicitor of JB , now working at the CCRC !!

[ajross]

Thank you, like I say, I'm trying to get through lots of stuff on here but am time limited! If he had these photos then could he not just testify under oath?

[ajross]

Thank you, like I say, I'm trying to get through lots of stuff on here but am time limited! If he had these photos then could he not just testify under oath?

Sorry, ho wignorant of me, given his change of employer maybe this is not likely!

[Patti]

Although the official view is that police officers did not move, touch or disturb anything at all at the scene, except for DI Cook moving Sheila's hand to allow PC Bird (SOC) to take pictures of a bloodied impression on the front lower part of Sheila's nightdress, the stark truth of the matter is that police moved almost everything and anything - in particular they moved Sheila's body from the bed to the floor, they moved June Bambers body from the bed to the floor, and they moved Ralph Bambers body from a sitting position on a chair behind an internal kitchen door onto the kitchen floor, and they put his heavily bloodstanied head in to a coal bucket...

Hi Mike

I don't believe Nevill's body was moved; for the simple fact his body was in rigour mortise. his arms were in the correct position. If he had died in the chair, his arms would have been by his side.  To move him forward would mean his arms would have stayed by his side and his arm clearly show that they had flopped to towards the floor.

In my opinion, looking at the photo evidence on here; June's body had definitely been moved and it's obvious to the eye that she had been moved for her arm stuck out, thus showing that it was not the position she had died in.  The photo evidence shows that at one point she was in bed and at some point she was stood up, for good length of time. June also had injuries a v shape on her breast and bruising to her legs.

Shelia's body is in an awkward position. Looking at the photo. It appears she was turned over, for photo evidence suggests this and so does the blood flow. Also the gun had been moved, which suggests they had at one point removed the gun else where and then placed it back.

Mike is there any more photo's available?

 

[lebaleb]

I agree with you Patti, Nevill's body wasn't moved. The amount of bleeding around the coal scuttle is also an indication that that was where he died.

[Patti]

I agree with you Patti, Nevill's body wasn't moved. The amount of bleeding around the coal scuttle is also an indication that that was where he died.

Hi lebaleb......I would like to know who put that towel there and why were the seat covers stacked up...like someone had laid on them?

[mike tesko]

Hi Mike

I don't believe Nevill's body was moved; for the simple fact his body was in rigour mortise. his arms were in the correct position. If he had died in the chair, his arms would have been by his side.  To move him forward would mean his arms would have stayed by his side and his arm clearly show that they had flopped to towards the floor.

In my opinion, looking at the photo evidence on here; June's body had definitely been moved and it's obvious to the eye that she had been moved for her arm stuck out, thus showing that it was not the position she had died in.  The photo evidence shows that at one point she was in bed and at some point she was stood up, for good length of time. June also had injuries a v shape on her breast and bruising to her legs.

Shelia's body is in an awkward position. Looking at the photo. It appears she was turned over, for photo evidence suggests this and so does the blood flow. Also the gun had been moved, which suggests they had at one point removed the gun else where and then placed it back.

Mike is there any more photo's available?

I think your wrong about Ralph's body - it was definitely on the chair behind the door before the police pushed it open, and I believe there was another chair directly in front of his body, which he got toppled over on top of it when police pushed open the internal door...

You are not reading the available crime scene photographs correctly...