Bamber guilty, surely!

[tyler]

Mike..........a while back you posted a crime scene photo of June.Whenever I need to refer to it I can never find it.
Is there any chance that you could add it to the picture archive for easy reference......please?
I know it is a very disturbing photograph,but there is a "warning" at the beginning of the thread.

Thank you in advance 

[Patti]

Hi Tyler

I've just posted it on a new thread....

[mike tesko]

Hi Mike

I could go with two shooters, i really could....but do the case shells come from one gun only?

Talking of the batch of crime scene bullet cases?

According to the ballistic expert (MDF) he did not receive them, nor any bullets, nor any control ammunition, by which to test fire the anshulz rifle, until 20th September 1985, and his evidence was / is, that he carried out test firings of the same between 20th September 1985, and 2nd October 1985. As a result of these tests he was supposedly able to make comparison examinations of markings on bullet cases recovered from the scene, against markings on bullet cases he had loaded into the magazine of the gun, which had been fired and ejected during those tests performed between 20th September and 2nd October 1985, yet in stark contrast, Lab' documents show that comparison of marks found on bullet cases recovered from the scene, were made and carried out on dates long before 20th September 1985, thus thrusting the integrity of such bullet cases into considerable doubt...

[mike tesko]

Mike..........a while back you posted a crime scene photo of June.Whenever I need to refer to it I can never find it.
Is there any chance that you could add it to the picture archive for easy reference......please?
I know it is a very disturbing photograph,but there is a "warning" at the beginning of the thread.

Thank you in advance 

I am currently in Edinburgh, 'Stone of Destiny city', just finished doing a bit of research, I will be home to Yorkshire early evening. I am awaiting the arrival of a chauffeur driven Limousine to whisk me back south through the spectacular views of the scottish Border countryside, along the A701 route from Edinburgh to Moffatt (junction 15 of the M74). When I get home later this evening I will make the image you have requested available for 24 hours or so, so that will be your chance to copy it or download it. These photographs are very distressing and I think use of them on the forum has served its purpose in helping to educate everyone to the real prospect of the police stage managing the crime scene, not Jeremy (although he got blamed for it). I am considering removing some of the images for the reasons given...

[jon]

Contents of (3.26am) phone log Clearly has input from two different sources, Ralph contacts police about his daughter having got possession of one of his guns, which got added to later once jeremy got around to reporting to the police (3.36am) the details of his fathers call...

Details of Jeremy's call to the police (3.36am) got recorded separately...

Ralph's call got logged including reference by jeremy to the police of Ralphs call to him, whereas details of Jeremy's call to the police deal only with what Ralph said to Jeremy (as interpreted by Malcolm Bonnet and PC West)...

What part of the above , do you disagree with Currious ?

[tyler]

Hi Tyler

I've just posted it on a new thread....

Thanks Patti,but I meant the whole image.I just wanted to look again where Junes body is in relation to the door.

Thank you Mike,and that is a good decision btw.

Enjoy your limo ride..................you could have invited me! 

[mike tesko]

What I find rather puzzling is the fact that although police took photographs of June Bambers body lolled up against the open bedroom door, with both feet pointing into the bedroom, at least one member of the raid team described seeing Junes body with her feet pointing in the direction of the door?

[Patti]

I think she was moved too Mike....it is the only explanation of why her arm is raised.

Rigor Mortis at the Crime Scene
A body goes stiff in the exact position it was in when the person died. If the body's position doesn't match up with the location where someone found it -- for example, if it's flat on its back in bed with one arm sticking straight up -- that could mean someone moved it.

[mike tesko]

Some have pointed out the lack of injury and bloostaining to sheila 's body and nightdress as an indication that she could not have fought and overpowered Ralph during the shootings, yet they choose to ignore that Jeremy displayed no injuries either? On the other hand, if you look at the state of June and the injuries she sustained, and the manner with which her nightdress was so severely bloodstained, it remains a very distinct possibility that if anyone fought with Ralph, it was June...

[Patti]

Of course she could have showered like some suggest.

Looking at Shelia's body, then at June's, one would automatically think, that June had walked around a crime scene rather than her daughter.

Looking at June, I think she may have been moved from her original death position.  Who could have done that and why?

[mike tesko]

Of course she could have showered like some suggest.

Looking at Shelia's body, then at June's, one would automatically think, that June had walked around a crime scene rather than her daughter.

Looking at June, I think she may have been moved from her original death position.  Who could have done that and why?

Truth is...

Bodies of Ralph, June and Sheila, were all moved and staged by the team of training officers, and then SOC took photographs of the bodies in situ, and later relied upon the position of the bodies in these photographs as being the position police found them upon entry...

[lebaleb]

Talking of the batch of crime scene bullet cases?

According to the ballistic expert (MDF) he did not receive them, nor any bullets, nor any control ammunition, by which to test fire the anshulz rifle, until 20th September 1985, and his evidence was / is, that he carried out test firings of the same between 20th September 1985, and 2nd October 1985. As a result of these tests he was supposedly able to make comparison examinations of markings on bullet cases recovered from the scene, against markings on bullet cases he had loaded into the magazine of the gun, which had been fired and ejected during those tests performed between 20th September and 2nd October 1985, yet in stark contrast, Lab' documents show that comparison of marks found on bullet cases recovered from the scene, were made and carried out on dates long before 20th September 1985, thus thrusting the integrity of such bullet cases into considerable doubt...

That's right and the evidence bags had been opened and resealed

[Patti]

Talking about bullets and casings.....I noticed that on the pathologist reports for June, that the entry wounds were not all the same size...How can this be if there was only one gun used at the time?

[ngb1066]

Talking about bullets and casings.....I noticed that on the pathologist reports for June, that the entry wounds were not the size...How can this be if there was only one gun used at the time?

There were several entry wounds to the victims which were larger than the .22 inch diameter of the bullets used.  Mike has argued that this supports the proposition that a larger calibre weapon may have been used, possibly one of the police weapons.  My own view is that entry wounds may be larger than the bullet which caused them.  The Eley subsonic hollowpoint bullets used were designed to expand or fragment and depending upon the angle of contact, the range and the nature of the impact point it would be possible to see different sizes of entry wound caused by the same weapon.  In addition there is a suggestion that some of the ammunition used may have been Pargeter's high velocity copper jacketed ammunition rather than the Eley subsonic hollowpoint ammunition normally used with the Bamber rifle.

 

[Patti]

There were several entry wounds to the victims which were larger than the .22 inch diameter of the bullets used.  Mike has argued that this supports the proposition that a larger calibre weapon may have been used, possibly one of the police weapons.  My own view is that entry wounds may be larger than the bullet which caused them.  The Eley subsonic hollowpoint bullets used were designed to expand or fragment and depending upon the angle of contact, the range and the nature of the impact point it would be possible to see different sizes of entry wound caused by the same weapon.  In addition there is a suggestion that some of the ammunition used may have been Pargeter's high velocity copper jacketed ammunition rather than the Eley subsonic hollowpoint ammunition normally used with the Bamber rifle.

Hi Ngb

You sound like a firearms expert.....Would the entry wounds be larger or smaller with distance?

Or would they be larger or smaller, depending which area of the body was shot?

It is possible two guns where used.....because for example.....Say the poor little ones were shot first, that is 9 gone leaving 2 and 1 in the whatever you call it.....
 
The killer would have to re-load........could have gone down the stairs across from the twins room....but why risk that? Other members of the family could have woken up....