If silencer wasn't used...

[packagebuilder]

Have to go and do my maternal duty as a taxi, so just a brief reply.

The neck chain could have got in the way of a silencer, good point, although the absolute edge of the silencer would need to be perfectly aligned with the chain for some half inch of chain, wouldn't it? And is this possible with a curved silencer end cap? Maybe not. Should there be some burn effect from the chain heating if this was the case? These are probably a stupid points - I know nothing about guns and silencers.

I tried the angle test by pressing the 'end cap' of a cylindrical battery on the inside of my arm at at an angle, the result was still a highly curved indentation. Am I thinking of this the wrong way?

Personally I never wore any neck chains before. lets say if the chain was in the way?

We must think how a neck chain could get in the way, by laying down on a bed? or leaning over the rifle?

Also a propose of a silencer is to cool down the expanding hot gases fast before exiting the muzzle?

you could also think of the treading catching on the chain too? but is unlikey

I do think Sheila would be in a rush too shoot herself if the police was in the house too! and she could of lay on the bed quickly and her chain inbetween laying on the bed and matress could pull/jab the chain? if she push herself along the bed too?

Chochok Eira if you own a chain similer to Sheila's and don't mind doing such test then do it!  I more then happy for you try then wonder!

[Reader]

. . . blood started to run out of the end of the silencer.

I doubt it, and blood from the shootings would have dried by then anyway.

[packagebuilder]

I doubt it, and blood from the shootings would have dried by then anyway.

It was claimed to be gushing out the end of the silencer? yes the blood would have dried by then!

There then a statment about a flake of blood....? its gone from running out to a small flake trapped in the baffles?

but all it takes is one FSU to claim this, the another officers agrees then before you know it the whole police force is satified?

even a PC Ball from the boys in blue film can do a better job!!.. mind you this film did come out in 1982?? I wonder if Essex police have been watching this....

[Nuala]

Personally I never wore any neck chains before. lets say if the chain was in the way?

We must think how a neck chain could get in the way, by laying down on a bed? or leaning over the rifle?

Also a propose of a silencer is to cool down the expanding hot gases fast before exiting the muzzle?

you could also think of the treading catching on the chain too? but is unlikey

I do think Sheila would be in a rush too shoot herself if the police was in the house too! and she could of lay on the bed quickly and her chain inbetween laying on the bed and matress could pull/jab the chain? if she push herself along the bed too?

Chochok Eira if you own a chain similer to Sheila's and don't mind doing such test then do it!  I more then happy for you try then wonder!

In the photographs of Sheila after her death, the pendant part of Sheila's necklace is at the back of her neck, instead of its normal position at the front. So the weight of the pendant part of the necklace would have pulled the chain higher up Sheila's neck and tighter around that part of the neck than would be the case if the pendant was at the front. 

Any woman who wears a neck chain, as I do for my crucifix, will tell you that the pendant part of the necklace that hangs on the chain frequently works its way round to either the side or the back of the neck, so its position often has to be adjusted. That is particularly true during periods of exertion.

I've just moved my crucifix to the back of my neck, but I need to check the photo.

[Nuala]

Personally I never wore any neck chains before. lets say if the chain was in the way?

We must think how a neck chain could get in the way, by laying down on a bed? or leaning over the rifle?

Also a propose of a silencer is to cool down the expanding hot gases fast before exiting the muzzle?

you could also think of the treading catching on the chain too? but is unlikey

I do think Sheila would be in a rush too shoot herself if the police was in the house too! and she could of lay on the bed quickly and her chain inbetween laying on the bed and matress could pull/jab the chain? if she push herself along the bed too?

Chochok Eira if you own a chain similer to Sheila's and don't mind doing such test then do it!  I more then happy for you try then wonder!

The locket that Sheila is wearing in the photograph appears to be at the side, not at the back as I'd previously thought, although the locket may not have been in this position when Sheila shot herself or was shot. Anyway, I just tried simulating shooting myself using a garden rake.

1. Standing and leaning forward to shoot myself in the same part of the neck where Sheila's neck sustained the non fatal wound, my neck chain did not get in the way of the 'silencer' no matter how I turned my neck or moved, the chain remained too low down. So the silencer did not rest on the chain.

It's a nuisance to keep referring back to the photo, so I'm going to save a copy here.

[mike tesko]

The locket that Sheila is wearing in the photograph appears to be at the side, not at the back as I'd previously thought, although the locket may not have been in this position when Sheila shot herself or was shot. Anyway, I just tried simulating shooting myself using a garden rake.

1. Standing and leaning forward to shoot myself in the same part of the neck where Sheila's neck sustained the non fatal wound, my neck chain did not get in the way of the 'silencer' no matter how I turned my neck or moved, the chain remained too low down. So the silencer did not rest on the chain.

It's a nuisance to keep referring back to the photo, so I'm going to save a copy here.

I think a better explanation for the straight edge of the mark around the lower non fatal entry wound  is to do with the angle at which the silencer was offered into position against the throat, and the track angle taken by the original bullet PV/20, I think the so called straight edge has something to do with the angle at which the muzzle of the silencer was put to the neck, and the track which the bullet took, slightly sideways and upwards?

I am including a rough diagram to try to get the meaning of what I am trying to say across better, but it is only a rough sketch and not to scale, etc....

[Nuala]

Personally I never wore any neck chains before. lets say if the chain was in the way?

We must think how a neck chain could get in the way, by laying down on a bed? or leaning over the rifle?

Also a propose of a silencer is to cool down the expanding hot gases fast before exiting the muzzle?

you could also think of the treading catching on the chain too? but is unlikey

I do think Sheila would be in a rush too shoot herself if the police was in the house too! and she could of lay on the bed quickly and her chain inbetween laying on the bed and matress could pull/jab the chain? if she push herself along the bed too?

Chochok Eira if you own a chain similer to Sheila's and don't mind doing such test then do it!  I more then happy for you try then wonder!

Okay, I tried lying down on the bed and shooting myself with the handle garden rake, but the chain of my necklace did not co-operate. I tried moving around but it would not move into the right position to be caught by the 'silencer'. So I placed it in the correct position - yet the dratted thing did not want to stay there. I think the problem is:

1. The back of the neck scrunches up and tends to hold the chain low down at the back of the neck - which keeps it low at the front too. I could pull it above the scrunching, but did not feel that this might have happened naturally as the scrunching holds the chain quite firmly.

2. The tautness of my neck once I pulled my head back into the position that Sheila's is in, or a similar position - and there is a natural tendency to pull the head back as Sheila has done when about to shoot oneself: try it for yourself - this tautness and bulge of the muscles makes the neck chain either slide down or stops it sitting where I want it to.

3. This tautness did, however, make my crucifix slide to the side - the other (left) side.

[packagebuilder]

Yes I just tried it with a laced neckless I've looking up it does become tight!  :D

Also Mike's view of the angle too a good point! 

As Sheila was alive, could over time that mark was made by the fragments in her neck damage tissue under her skin could have made the bruise mark instead of the silencer....? it did knock her out.... that must of left the mark!

[grahameb]

Okay, I tried lying down on the bed and shooting myself with the handle garden rake,

And I thought you had a logical mind Keira?

[grahameb]

So if the evidence was "planted" so to speak who had access to the house before the relatives were given the key?