Author Topic: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom  (Read 69940 times)

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Offline Patti

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #345 on: April 12, 2012, 05:08:PM »
That is actually a good question. It was a fact that Ralph's body was in rigor mortice. Which indicates a longer time of death? But then again the police didn't break in til much later, which could explain that. The other thing to consider though is that many believe that Sheila was the last to die and point to the fresh apparently still wet blood running from the wounds in her neck.


Hi Grahame

I have studied this case back to front....And it is documented that the Ralph was shot 3 times in the bedroom....A Pathologist report said, that one of the shots would have made Ralph speechless....thus, making him unable to make the said call at 3:26. However, because of the lack of forensic evidence it can't be proven beyond a doubt that Ralph was shot in the bedroom, even though 3 extra shell cases were found there....

The bug bare is the call....at 3:26 My daughter Shelia has gone beserk with one of my guns.....

Not my wife has been shot we need an ambulance or saying any shots had been fired.....this makes me believe that they were all still alive even at 3:36 and when Ralph phoned his son.....

Everything else I am clear about....:)

I do believe that Ralph had the gun barrel placed into his back...

Offline HMEssex

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #346 on: April 12, 2012, 05:12:PM »
From what I saw, the top mark/gouge was a different shape to the other two.  It was wider and narrower, whilst the others were rounded and slightly smaller.  I wonder what this means?  Poor Neville.

Offline Patti

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #347 on: April 12, 2012, 05:19:PM »
From what I saw, the top mark/gouge was a different shape to the other two.  It was wider and narrower, whilst the others were rounded and slightly smaller.  I wonder what this means?  Poor Neville.

Hi There

I saw the forensic tests done with the same gun at the same heat on pigs skin...

One test with a silencer, which did not match the burns.

The other test without the silencer and it was a match...

Forensic's have proved that the marks on Nevill's back were made from the barrel end of the gun..


How and why? Was this poor man frog marched downstairs and told to make a call with the gun held to
his back? If so who by?

Online ngb1066

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #348 on: April 12, 2012, 05:25:PM »
Hi There

I saw the forensic tests done with the same gun at the same heat on pigs skin...

One test with a silencer, which did not match the burns.

The other test without the silencer and it was a match...

Forensic's have proved that the marks on Nevill's back were made from the barrel end of the gun..


How and why? Was this poor man frog marched downstairs and told to make a call with the gun held to
his back? If so who by?

That is possible, but the barrel of the rifle had to be heated by some means other than simply firing the rifle.  25 shots fired through the rifle does not heat the end of the barrel to a sufficient temperature to cause the three burns.  For that reason the defence theory is that the end of the barrel was placed into contact with the Aga.  The Aga was lit even though it was summer.  If the defence theory is correct it is likely that the burns were inflicted on Nevill in the kitchen.  My own view, and I accept I do not have direct evidence of this, is that the burns may have been inflicted after Nevill was dead or at least unconscious.

 

Offline grahameb

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #349 on: April 12, 2012, 05:27:PM »
Hi Grahame

I have studied this case back to front....And it is documented that the Ralph was shot 3 times in the bedroom....A Pathologist report said, that one of the shots would have made Ralph speechless....thus, making him unable to make the said call at 3:26. However, because of the lack of forensic evidence it can't be proven beyond a doubt that Ralph was shot in the bedroom, even though 3 extra shell cases were found there....

The bug bare is the call....at 3:26 My daughter Shelia has gone beserk with one of my guns.....

Not my wife has been shot we need an ambulance or saying any shots had been fired.....this makes me believe that they were all still alive even at 3:36 and when Ralph phoned his son.....

Everything else I am clear about....:)

I do believe that Ralph had the gun barrel placed into his back...
Well I'm glad you're clear about Patti. Because the whole problem with this case is that quite a lot is not clear and that is why there are diverse opinions about various aspects of it. :)

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #350 on: April 12, 2012, 05:37:PM »
Welcome Patti another strongly opinionated female poster :)
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #351 on: April 12, 2012, 05:42:PM »
Patti did you join the forum after watching the documentary and are you a law student
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline campion

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #352 on: April 12, 2012, 05:51:PM »
 Vidvic, Maybe she leaned it against the Aga while she was making something to eat ! Why anyone would inflict what sound like torture burns is beyond me. I don't know the answer to the acts of deranged people other than keep all firearms in locked cabinets and the ammo somewhere else that's locked. If someone is in a highly agitated state, rational thinking is replaced by mania. I hold the complacent attitude towards guns responsible. Lets say for arguments sake Jeremy did it, if the guns had been securely kept the temptation would not arise, if on the other hand someone with a fragile state of mind sees an opportunity to end a bad situation, out of desperation they take it. Shelia could have killed everybody in the time it takes to boil an egg if you can forgive the analogy. This subject is particularly difficult to broach and however careful I try to be in writing, things can get misinterpretted as bad taste.....   

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #353 on: April 12, 2012, 05:57:PM »
Vidvic, Maybe she leaned it against the Aga while she was making something to eat ! Why anyone would inflict what sound like torture burns is beyond me. I don't know the answer to the acts of deranged people other than keep all firearms in locked cabinets and the ammo somewhere else that's locked. If someone is in a highly agitated state, rational thinking is replaced by mania. I hold the complacent attitude towards guns responsible. Lets say for arguments sake Jeremy did it, if the guns had been securely kept the temptation would not arise, if on the other hand someone with a fragile state of mind sees an opportunity to end a bad situation, out of desperation they take it. Shelia could have killed everybody in the time it takes to boil an egg if you can forgive the analogy. This subject is particularly difficult to broach and however careful I try to be in writing, things can get misinterpretted as bad taste.....

Campion, the outside of the AGA is insulated and doesn't reach the temperatures in question, if the barrel of the gun is responsible then it was a concerted effort to heat it.

Offline campion

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #354 on: April 12, 2012, 06:08:PM »
 You would be surprised Hartley, a friend of mine (I have at least one) has got an oil fired Aga, I have burnt myself leaning against that without realising it. The Aga my friend has got does all the hot water as well as central heating so it is never switched off.

Offline lebaleb

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #355 on: April 12, 2012, 06:56:PM »
Barbara Wilson says she believes Jeremy guilty because she didn't see him grieving and that he was happy. Surely someone who was supposed to be so devious and such a brilliant actor would have been able to act upset even if he were jumping for joy. As for Boultflour, it's obvious why he needs to dismiss the claim of Jeremy's innocence. He says that Shielas hair and nails were immaculate. If that were so why didn't she struggle when Jeremy shot her?  He also says she had no blood on her which is not true.

Offline maggie

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #356 on: April 12, 2012, 07:11:PM »
Barbara Wilson says she believes Jeremy guilty because she didn't see him grieving and that he was happy. Surely someone who was supposed to be so devious and such a brilliant actor would have been able to act upset even if he were jumping for joy. As for Boultflour, it's obvious why he needs to dismiss the claim of Jeremy's innocence. He says that Shielas hair and nails were immaculate. If that were so why didn't she struggle when Jeremy shot her?  He also says she had no blood on her which is not true.
  As far as I remember reading, Jeremy was taking a combination of valium, alcohol and cannabis to 'help him cope' after the murders. That is a really lethal mix, would imagine he didn't know what he was doing half the time.

Offline Patti

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #357 on: April 12, 2012, 07:30:PM »
That is possible, but the barrel of the rifle had to be heated by some means other than simply firing the rifle.  25 shots fired through the rifle does not heat the end of the barrel to a sufficient temperature to cause the three burns.  For that reason the defence theory is that the end of the barrel was placed into contact with the Aga.  The Aga was lit even though it was summer.  If the defence theory is correct it is likely that the burns were inflicted on Nevill in the kitchen.  My own view, and I accept I do not have direct evidence of this, is that the burns may have been inflicted after Nevill was dead or at least unconscious.

 

Hi

When the forensic test were done, the end of the barrel was heated up to the same heat
as it would if it had been fired.  Then the end of the barrel was placed on pig skin, which
is identified to be similar to our own.

When a shot is fired through a semi automatic, it the end of the nozzle becomes heated, this is
a fact...The friction burns on Nevill's back were consistent, with the test done on the pig skin...
The measurements were the same size as the end of the barrel.......Thus, making the forensic test
a strong indication that the barrel was at some stage pointed into Nevill's back......

Offline Patti

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #358 on: April 12, 2012, 07:37:PM »
Patti did you join the forum after watching the documentary and are you a law student

Hi Jackie

No I joined the forum today and, no I am not a law student. I suppose this case will
always be an interesting one.

I don't believe JB had a fair trial and a great deal of evidence was withheld and never
produced at court.

The police made mistakes, bloody big ones...in burning most of the evidence 12 hours
after the killing's.  There was computers back then, but not on the scale of today. Most
documents were filed.

I want to be 100% sure JB did not shot that family.

So far there is no concrete evidence to say he did...

Offline Patti

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Re: People Are Playing Games With Jeremys Life and Freedom
« Reply #359 on: April 12, 2012, 07:49:PM »
Barbara Wilson says she believes Jeremy guilty because she didn't see him grieving and that he was happy. Surely someone who was supposed to be so devious and such a brilliant actor would have been able to act upset even if he were jumping for joy. As for Boultflour, it's obvious why he needs to dismiss the claim of Jeremy's innocence. He says that Shielas hair and nails were immaculate. If that were so why didn't she struggle when Jeremy shot her?  He also says she had no blood on her which is not true.

Hi Maggie, I don't know if you have seen all the crime scene photographs of Shelia.
There are only a couple on the net....

When you look at the one where the the gun is seated on her chest....You will notice blood splatter
on the carpet near the top of her legs. This is important; also notice there is no drops of blood on her night dress......On the other shot, where is shows you her face....you will note blood on the right side of her nightie....suggesting that, she had been laid somewhat on her side at some point......Also note the position of the head, this proves beyond a doubt that she was not shot while laying down...her neck is twisted and must have hit the corner of the bed when she fell....

We also have blood pattens going down the right arm, meaning that her arm was across her body as if in a sling...Also there is a blood stain on her nightie which suggests that blood dripped feom her first wound onto her arm and marked her nightie...could be when she held the gun towards her for the last time.......only saying..:)

Here are the images:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvL5aTtc7CjFVFzVsou2a7r60oN0rfo879T9aOqLSriV6J048_4g

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuhZPBDiAqRbnkeliHLBdj_hPjrMTy3fsxWnIbB3HpsJ4HJDwVIXcFjZQD

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Sheila_Caffell_crime_scene.JPG

Note the blood splatter, position of body, and arm.