Author Topic: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...  (Read 17124 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« on: February 05, 2011, 02:57:PM »
Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders - they stage managed the crime scene, and moved bodies, including Sheila's, to cover up serious mistakes during the operation inside whf that led to Sheila's death in the main bedroom...

Sheila Caffell need not have died inside the main bedroom at whf, but she did so because of very serious mistakes which were made by members of the raid team that forced its way into the farmhouse at around 7:30am. The police found two bodies downstairs upon entry into the premises, the body of one dead male, and (this is the mistake they made) the body of one dead female, which were reported as a murder and a suicide before 7:45am. This was not a case where the body of a dead male had been mistaken for that of the body of a dead female, which was not rectified until police actually got into the Kitchen - messages were sent out from the scene for the police surgeon and the coroners officer to attend in connection with two bodies, not one...

By the time these messages were being passed from the scene, if it had just been a case of someone mistakenly identifying the body of a dead female for that of a dead male, information would not have been passed from the scene for the police surgeon and the coroners officer to attend the scene in connection with two bodies, they would simply have been told to attend the scene in connection with the discovery of one body...

Similarly, before 7:45am, a message would not have been passed from the scene to the control room, informing them that two bodies had been found upon entry to the premises, one of which was a murder, and the other a suicide - if there had been a mix up where a dead male had mistakenly been identified as a dead female,  that one death could not be reported as a murder and a suicide, and so lets not beat about the bush, the police found two bodies downstairs at the scene, one of which was Ralph Bamber, and the other Sheila Caffell...

By 8:10am, the premises had been comprehensively searched, and a further three bodies reported to have been found upstairs, making five dead in total...

At no stage was there ever a mention of a fourth body having been found upstairs, prior to 8:10am, at which point the armed operation inside whf was terminated and senior police officers, requested to move into the farmhouse from their position in a nearby (out building) forward control point...

At 8:10am, the operation inside the farmhouse was over, and there was no report of a fourth body having been found upstairs, by that stage...

With this in mind, and if the body of Ralph Bamber had been mistakenly identified as the body of Sheila, why wasn't there any mention of a fourth body having been found upstairs, before or by 8:10am? The simple answer is because there wasn't a fourth body upstairs prior to 8:10am...

You do not have to be a genius to work it out that the story which has been introduced to try and explain the presence of two bodies having been found downstairs, by the suggestion that a male body was mistakenly identified as a female body, because only three other bodies were found upstairs, not four bodies by 8:10am...

What story or explanation will these police officers be prepared to introduce next, to account for this discrepancy?

If there were two bodies found downstairs, it stands to reason that there would only be three other bodies upstairs, if the total number of dead was five...

On the other hand, if there was only one body downstairs, you still cannot only have three bodies upstairs, otherwise there is only four bodies...

The truth of the matter is...

That the police made a mistake by wrongly assuming that the female body (Sheila) which was found downstairs was a dead female, and they made the added mistake of not checking and making safe the Bamber rifle which they found in the bedroom leaning up against the bedroom window. It was these two mistakes, which ultimately cost Sheila Caffell her life in the main bedroom at about 8:30am, that same morning...

Not only did police mistakes cost Sheila her life in the bedroom, but those very same mistakes put the lives of the raid team, and later, the lives of senior police officers at risk of being confronted and shot at, and possibly killed by Sheila who eventually ended up back in possession of a loaded gun whilst police were still inside the farmhouse...

By 9am, a second team of firearms officers arrived inside the house and carried out a reconstruction (re-enactment) of the original operation, and identified what went wrong, and how it went wrong - this exercise lasted 22 minutes, at the conclusion of which senior police officers at the scene, acting in conjunction with the permission and authority of ACC Peter Simpson (Head of Operation), agreed to stage manage the scene, and move bodies, and place a gun upon Sheila, and to arrange for members of the original raid team to report the discovery of the bodies, as shown at the time when PC Bird took his crimes scene photographs from 10 O'clock, onwards that same morning...

It was not juntil later that evening when a debrief was held at Witham police station at around 8pm, that senior officers instructed the members of the original firearms team, to make up their notes and statements for the Coroners court, along the lines of this was a four murders and a suicide, and that the bodies were found upon entry in the positions shown in the crime scene pictures taken later....

This upset PS Adams who was the Commander of the operation at the time the house was first entered, at around 7:30am, and he complained to senior officers, that it was not right to ask him and his junior officers to lie about where the bodies had been found - but he was eventually persuaded to tow the line, along with other police officers who reluctantly followed the instruction of senior officers. They were persuaded to do so, because they were told by senior officers, that Sheila had killed the others, and then herself, it was just the way, and the manner, with which Sheila had taken her own life, that was not being reported, accurately...

Police made false reports and wrote up false details in their pocketbooks, for the purpose of covering up the serious mistakes which had been made during the operation, that led to the loss of Sheila Caffells life in the bedroom, that is what this was and is all about - they did not falsify their account with a view to framing Jeremy Bamber, or anyone else, for the murders, and anyone who suggests that they did do, at that time, is wrong...

The actual circumstances of how Sheila had died in the bedroom were not repeated at the opening of the inquest into these five deaths, it was simply reported as four murders and a suicide, where Sheila had shot and killed the others and that she had then taken her own life by way of shooting herself under the chin...

Within one week of the opening of the inquest, the bodies of the five victims were disposed of, by way of cremation in the case of Ralph, June and Sheila, and by burial in the case of the children...

By this stage...

It was too late to go back, it was too late for the police to tell the truth about what really took place, the police had made their bed and now they had to lay in it - no matter what...

And then...

The relatives were getting restless, and Julie Mugford, after being dumped, came forward spinning a fantastic tale of how Jeremy had been planning to kill his family for over a year...





« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 03:04:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

andrea

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 03:14:PM »
so why did the police make the situation worse by then saying jeremy did it regardless of what the eatons and boutflours were saying, why didnt the police just stick to the truth.all the police at whf that morning knew sheila was responsible, and thats what i dont understand,why on earth then arrest jeremy when they knew it was sheila? how come the eatons and boutflours had so much influence, when the police knew the real story? i cant understand it at all.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 03:24:PM »
Robert Boutflour received inside information about nature of Essex police investigation from PC Robert Carr (Metropolitan police officer)

By the time Robert Boutflour went to speak to ACC Peter Simpson, at DHQ, on 6th SEptember 1985, he had been appraised as to what had actually taken place at the scene, involving the re-enactment by a second group of officers at the scene, between 9 and 9:22am, by a close associate of his, PC Robert Carr...

Robert Boutflour threatened to expose what Essex police had done, if ACC Simpson did not start a fresh investigation with a view to looking into whether or not Jeremy could have, and did kill the family? By this stage, Boutflour knew that Essex police had deceived the Coroners court regarding the circumstances of how Sheila had died in the bedroom...

From this point, onward, (6th September 1985) Essex police set out to frame Jeremy Bamber for the murders...

A new file (SC/786/85) was created and the DPP edited statements, and got witnesses to sign them later, as part of the general conspiracy to make out a case that Jeremy had stage managed Sheila's body in the bedroom, and that he was the killer...

From 6th September 1985, onward, the DPP assisted Essex police to maintain their cover regarding what they had done at the scene, which led to Sheila's death in the bedroom at about 8:30am. They created a second file (SC/786/85) and withheld the contents of the original file (SC/688/85), which they continue to do, until this very day...
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 03:27:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Pete0001

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 03:31:PM »
I think that the Police messed it up. Parts of the cover up would been seen by the Police at the time as "house keeping".. putting things in order that were done incorrectly.

I think later on when the Relatives got involved, after seeing JB having quite a relaxed expensive good time emptying house of treasures (if Boutflours diary is to be taken seriously) and spending money like crazy they probably, and I think understandly, felt a little angry. Once they started going to the Police there would have been a stage when the Police would have to stop and listen. The Julie comes along with her statement and the Police suddenly realise this isn't going to go away.
From the job they did the first time at the scene and shortly after I think there were Police within Essex that were seriously worried questions were going to be asked that they couldn't explain without looking completely incompetent.

I don't think the Police really knew what happened... they just assumed the most likely version of events which led to a very sloppy operation.

andrea

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 03:33:PM »
so boutflour even knew it was sheila that was resposible, if pc carr had told him of the re=enactment that morning at whf.but the family still insisted that the police reoen the file witha view to framing jeremy.eatons and boutflours are a absolute disgrace.

trudijackson

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 03:45:PM »
Can we assume then the the full facts of what occurred came out at the subsequent two police enquiries, which is why the documents have been withheld and the officers involved given immunity from prosecution?

Offline Pete0001

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2011, 03:50:PM »
true carry, very true,the family called jeremy greedy etc. who were really the greedy ones? it was them, and greedy to the extent of bribing the police force in to arresting jeremy for the murders, and the poor bloke as a result spending more than half his life behind bars.also at the same time denying the victims the justice and truth they deserved.

I've not seen anything about Bribes? Fair play if its posted somewhere but do becareful.
You never know who reads this forum and what some would class as libel or something.. something I guess we all have to remember when posting.
This event affects alot of people.

andrea

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2011, 03:53:PM »
well, not a bribe, but boutflour threatened to expose the police over the original investigation if they didnt reopen it. sorry folks ill wipe that comment :)

Offline Pete0001

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 03:56:PM »
well, not a bribe, but boutflour threatened to expose the police over the original investigation if they didnt reopen it. sorry folks ill wipe that comment :)

Hey.. I've got no problem believing it :) just a heads up as you never know  :)

andrea

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2011, 03:58:PM »
true pete, its bloody infuriating though isnt it?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2011, 07:41:PM »
Re this police re-enactment thing, wouldn't it have been easier just to say that the first firearms team had been mistaken about a second body in the kitchen?

They could have just said they moved Sheila's body because they thought they could help her. There was no need for such a huge cover up.

I don't believe that a second team could have got there by 9 if Sheila had killed herself at 8.30. There simply wasn't time, and I don't think the first priority would have been some kind of training exercise.


Offline Kaldin

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 07:42:PM »
Does anyone think that an entire firearms team would have kept quiet once they knew that Jeremy was in the frame for murder?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2011, 07:46:PM »
Robert Boutflour received inside information about nature of Essex police investigation from PC Robert Carr (Metropolitan police officer)

By the time Robert Boutflour went to speak to ACC Peter Simpson, at DHQ, on 6th SEptember 1985, he had been appraised as to what had actually taken place at the scene, involving the re-enactment by a second group of officers at the scene, between 9 and 9:22am, by a close associate of his, PC Robert Carr...

Robert Boutflour threatened to expose what Essex police had done, if ACC Simpson did not start a fresh investigation with a view to looking into whether or not Jeremy could have, and did kill the family? By this stage, Boutflour knew that Essex police had deceived the Coroners court regarding the circumstances of how Sheila had died in the bedroom...

From this point, onward, (6th September 1985) Essex police set out to frame Jeremy Bamber for the murders...

A new file (SC/786/85) was created and the DPP edited statements, and got witnesses to sign them later, as part of the general conspiracy to make out a case that Jeremy had stage managed Sheila's body in the bedroom, and that he was the killer...

From 6th September 1985, onward, the DPP assisted Essex police to maintain their cover regarding what they had done at the scene, which led to Sheila's death in the bedroom at about 8:30am. They created a second file (SC/786/85) and withheld the contents of the original file (SC/688/85), which they continue to do, until this very day...

It was 5th September when Robert Boutflour spoke to Simpson.

He didn't know at the time that he stood to gain if Jeremy was convicted, so why on earth would he want to frame Jeremy?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2011, 08:09:PM »
Robert Boutflour received inside information about nature of Essex police investigation from PC Robert Carr (Metropolitan police officer)

By the time Robert Boutflour went to speak to ACC Peter Simpson, at DHQ, on 6th SEptember 1985, he had been appraised as to what had actually taken place at the scene, involving the re-enactment by a second group of officers at the scene, between 9 and 9:22am, by a close associate of his, PC Robert Carr...

Robert Boutflour threatened to expose what Essex police had done, if ACC Simpson did not start a fresh investigation with a view to looking into whether or not Jeremy could have, and did kill the family? By this stage, Boutflour knew that Essex police had deceived the Coroners court regarding the circumstances of how Sheila had died in the bedroom...

From this point, onward, (6th September 1985) Essex police set out to frame Jeremy Bamber for the murders...

A new file (SC/786/85) was created and the DPP edited statements, and got witnesses to sign them later, as part of the general conspiracy to make out a case that Jeremy had stage managed Sheila's body in the bedroom, and that he was the killer...

From 6th September 1985, onward, the DPP assisted Essex police to maintain their cover regarding what they had done at the scene, which led to Sheila's death in the bedroom at about 8:30am. They created a second file (SC/786/85) and withheld the contents of the original file (SC/688/85), which they continue to do, until this very day...

It was 5th September when Robert Boutflour spoke to Simpson.

He didn't know at the time that he stood to gain if Jeremy was convicted, so why on earth would he want to frame Jeremy?
-------------------------------------------------

Yes he did know, that his family might benefit from the Bamber inheritance, by that stage, he had taken advice about it from a very early stage, as evidenced by witness statements he made to City of London Police...

He sought advice about the inheritance issue from two different sources, actually, according to what he told COLP, and he expected to have to pay for receiving that advice......
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Police did not set out to frame Jeremy for the murders...
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2011, 08:12:PM »
Robert Boutflour received inside information about nature of Essex police investigation from PC Robert Carr (Metropolitan police officer)

By the time Robert Boutflour went to speak to ACC Peter Simpson, at DHQ, on 6th SEptember 1985, he had been appraised as to what had actually taken place at the scene, involving the re-enactment by a second group of officers at the scene, between 9 and 9:22am, by a close associate of his, PC Robert Carr...

Robert Boutflour threatened to expose what Essex police had done, if ACC Simpson did not start a fresh investigation with a view to looking into whether or not Jeremy could have, and did kill the family? By this stage, Boutflour knew that Essex police had deceived the Coroners court regarding the circumstances of how Sheila had died in the bedroom...

From this point, onward, (6th September 1985) Essex police set out to frame Jeremy Bamber for the murders...

A new file (SC/786/85) was created and the DPP edited statements, and got witnesses to sign them later, as part of the general conspiracy to make out a case that Jeremy had stage managed Sheila's body in the bedroom, and that he was the killer...

From 6th September 1985, onward, the DPP assisted Essex police to maintain their cover regarding what they had done at the scene, which led to Sheila's death in the bedroom at about 8:30am. They created a second file (SC/786/85) and withheld the contents of the original file (SC/688/85), which they continue to do, until this very day...

It was 5th September when Robert Boutflour spoke to Simpson.

He didn't know at the time that he stood to gain if Jeremy was convicted, so why on earth would he want to frame Jeremy?
-------------------------------------------------

Yes he did know, that his family might benefit from the Bamber inheritance, by that stage, he had taken advice about it from a very early stage, as evidenced by witness statements he made to City of London Police...

He sought advice about the inheritance issue from two different sources, actually, according to what he told COLP, and he expected to have to pay for receiving that advice......

I read on here that he found out about the inheritance issue in October.