The (Andrew Hunter) Book draft, that never got published from seven years ago...

[maggie]

I can see one of the hands in that by now infamous photograph and there appear to be droplets of blood but otherwise her hands do look clean and perfectly manicured to boot,as commented upon by Police at the time.

Steve, surely you can reason enough to work out we have two statements supposedly written by the same man. Each statement tells of the same post mortem. You would imagine the first handwritten statement which stated her hands were bloodied was true therefore the typed 'copy' must have been doctored, surely you cannot believe Dr Vanezis lied in his original statement??

[Steve_uk]

Steve, surely you can reason enough to work out we have two statements supposedly written by the same man. Each statement tells of the same post mortem. You would imagine the first handwritten statement which stated her hands were bloodied was true therefore the typed 'copy' must have been doctored, surely you cannot believe Dr Vanezis lied in his original statement??

They were bloodied only in that she touched her neck when Jeremy shot her unawares.

[Jane]

They were bloodied only in that she touched her neck when Jeremy shot her unawares.

That may very likely account for one hand, not two and how would it be possible for anyone to be UNAWARE of the person standing in front of them?

[maggie]

They were bloodied only in that she touched her neck when Jeremy shot her unawares.

OMG Steve that is not the point and you know this vrry well.

[Caroline R]

I can see one of the hands in that by now infamous photograph and there appear to be droplets of blood but otherwise her hands do look clean and perfectly manicured to boot,as commented upon by Police at the time.

How does your answer have anything to do with the question?

[Jane]

How does your answer have anything to do with the question?

Let me take a guess. He has no credible response so he goes off at an INcredible tangent. Does that sound close? :D :D :D

[Steve_uk]

I don't see  it as a crucial point. We don't know where the blood spatter went,nobody has an explanation for the triangular-shaped bloodstain and her nightie looks as if she was lying down for both shots and not running around hiding from Police as has been alleged to account for the silencer mark among other things.

[grahameb]

They were bloodied only in that she touched her neck when Jeremy shot her unawares.

That's new. It had always been denied that her palms were bloodied up until this point in time. Now as it has been explained that they were in fact bloodied. The senario has been changed in order to incorporate that fact. As usual.

[JackAll]

Let me add something..........because from what I see here there are a lot of confused and irrelevant thoughts...........so this will add to it.........

The photo that shows SB/C laying with the rifle parallel to her body is very interesting..........

.....blood tracks clearly running around her arms and around her neck..........yet the huge area of blood bteween her right breast and arm has clearly run downwards and it appears that it did this in a considerable gush..

IMO, she was standing during one shot at least, probably both........then while she expired on the floor 'loose' blood continued to run, enough to cause the other tracks.........

Someone laid the gun on her.

Jack

[Patti]

Let me add something..........because from what I see here there are a lot of confused and irrelevant thoughts...........so this will add to it.........

The photo that shows SB/C laying with the rifle parallel to her body is very interesting..........

.....blood tracks clearly running around her arms and around her neck..........yet the huge area of blood bteween her right breast and arm has clearly run downwards and it appears that it did this in a considerable gush..

IMO, she was standing during one shot at least, probably both........then while she expired on the floor 'loose' blood continued to run, enough to cause the other tracks.........

Someone laid the gun on her.

Jack

The pathologist said she was either knelt down, sat down or leaned to her right side and this is why the blood congealed under her right side. I don't think she was standing because the blood would go straight to gravity point and there is no evidence to support that.  But, there is blood falling towards her right side which confirms she was in a leaning position to her right side at some point.... :D :D :D :D

[Caroline R]

I don't see  it as a crucial point. We don't know where the blood spatter went,nobody has an explanation for the triangular-shaped bloodstain and her nightie looks as if she was lying down for both shots and not running around hiding from Police as has been alleged to account for the silencer mark among other things.

You don't see it as crucial that the coroner CHANGED the findings written in his initial notes (written on the day of the autopsy) to when he made a statement (in September AFTER Jeremy is implicated)? You don't think that's crucial? In this instance Steve, it matters not if there was blood on her hands it's the fact that the coroner CHANGED his initial findings!! Lots of things might change if the focus of an investigation changes but NOT such details as were changed by Vanezis!! I know you can see the point, you're just doing what you usually do - putting your fingers in your ears and chanting the same mantra over and over in the hope it will go away. Do you now what to answer the question that was asked? Not the one you want to answer!!

[Steve_uk]

You don't see it as crucial that the coroner CHANGED the findings written in his initial notes (written on the day of the autopsy) to when he made a statement (in September AFTER Jeremy is implicated)? You don't think that's crucial? In this instance Steve, it matters not if there was blood on her hands it's the fact that the coroner CHANGED his initial findings!! Lots of things might change if the focus of an investigation changes but NOT such details as were changed by Vanezis!! I know you can see the point, you're just doing what you usually do - putting your fingers in your ears and chanting the same mantra over and over in the hope it will go away. Do you now what to answer the question that was asked? Not the one you want to answer!!

Anyone can see that in the photograph Sheila has blood on the hand. It's probably more of a cock-up than conspiracy and is similar to someone in the control room writing "one dead male and one dead female in the kitchen"(which I see has been dredged up again),or Dr. Ian Craig not confirming a time of death or even seeing the two shots on Sheila. It's incompetence and happens day-in day-out in real life,trust me.

[Jan]

Some questions about the draft book

It states that there was a fire in the grounds of WHF within a few days of items ( which obviously later would have been of forensic interest) not taking into account whether the family requested this - would this have been a normal action even in a murder suicide situation? Surely it would still be a standard procedure to piece together what had happened taking all available evidence into account?

Also is it true that the original paper file went missing in a burglary?

In the reports on the deaths were there any estimated times of deaths?

There is a time line in the draft book that mentions the police going in and confirmation of deaths then SOCO - but where does the "training exercise " come into it and who would have authorised that and at one time? Is that something that would have happened normally in such a sensitive situation , especially with children involved?

[Steve_uk]

Some questions about the draft book

It states that there was a fire in the grounds of WHF within a few days of items ( which obviously later would have been of forensic interest) not taking into account whether the family requested this - would this have been a normal action even in a murder suicide situation? Surely it would still be a standard procedure to piece together what had happened taking all available evidence into account?

Also is it true that the original paper file went missing in a burglary?

In the reports on the deaths were there any estimated times of deaths?

There is a time line in the draft book that mentions the police going in and confirmation of deaths then SOCO - but where does the "training exercise " come into it and who would have authorised that and at one time? Is that something that would have happened normally in such a sensitive situation , especially with children involved?

Jansus we are all a little weary when an old topic comes up with the pace of life it is today and winter approaching;it's nothing personal and Mike will kindly point you in the right direction I'm sure,but if you take time to browse the old threads you will find what you're looking for.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2673.45

[Jan]

thank you for link.

Apologies for making you weary. that's the problems with us newbies - trying to find our way round a lot of information. I will try and read and not ask questions.