The (Andrew Hunter) Book draft, that never got published from seven years ago...

[Caroline R]

it could possibly have just been a mistake the to words are easy to get mixed up.

He didn't use the words 'were' and 'weren't' I used them to make the point.

His hand written notes state "Nicotine stains R hand both hands not contaminated apart from
bloodstains"

His statement reads "Her palms and the fingers were not contaminated with blood"

He also stated in his written notes that the stain on her nightdress was transferred from her palm but in his typed statement, this changes to 'from wrists'

[nugnug]

are well thats not so easy to get mixed up.

[mike tesko]

During one of my visits to Andrew Hunters home, he gave me a copy of this photograph;-

At this stage, Andrew and myself were discussing how the original 6 man raid team managed to get into the main kitchen with the two chairs and Ralph's body blocking their path of entry...

[Steve_uk]

How is this taunting ? I think Julie would have been able to work out herself how to get into a locked house through a window . It isn't rocket science .
    What you offer as arguments in favour of JB's guilt are nothing of the sort . Even if Julie did come up with the idea from Jeremy then how does it then follow that Jeremy is guilty .
    Julie also came up with the idea of a hitman and of drugging everyone and burning down the house .
   

No,when Julie realized that the investigation was changing from four murders and a suicide to Jeremy being the sole perpetrator the last thing she needs is to add the detail of the hitman which was obviously an attempt by Jeremy to deflect opprobrium from his person. It has been said of Julie that her statement contained nothing which she could not have garnered from the newspaper reporting of the case,but the hitman story and the remark about the glove which came off in the struggle with Nevill prove to my mind that Julie was reporting a story which she had first been told by Jeremy.

[Steve_uk]

It has to be explained by the prosecution not the defence . The prosecution claims that the silencer could not be replaced in the cupboard because the fatal shot was a contact shot therefore meaning Sheila could not have replaced it . It was the non fatal shot that was a contact shot though so Sheila could in this scenario have replaced it .
      However , this only needs to be explained if the claims of the finding of the silencer are true .
     Do you honestly believe that the silencer evidence and trail of handling of said silencer/s is credible ?
     
     

We are constantly being told by the Defence that Jeremy had three adults to control in the house that morning,yet when it comes to contemplating that Jeremy may have used a silencer hands go up amongst the Jeremy supporters and perish the thought that one was used..

[grahameb]

No,when Julie realized that the investigation was changing from four murders and a suicide to Jeremy being the sole perpetrator the last thing she needs is to add the detail of the hitman which was obviously an attempt by Jeremy to deflect opprobrium from his person. It has been said of Julie that her statement contained nothing which she could not have garnered from the newspaper reporting of the case,but the hitman story and the remark about the glove which came off in the struggle with Nevill prove to my mind that Julie was reporting a story which she had first been told by Jeremy.

Now this suggestion does not sit well with me and to my mind is just illogical. To blame her lie on Jeremy lying to her when we only have her word for suggesting that there was a hit-man? Nothing from anybody else at all. Even the so called hit-man denies it.
How on earth can you suggest that it was Jeremy that was lying and not Mugford herself? Indeed if anything this lie is an indication that her whole statement was spurious.

[Caroline R]

We are constantly being told by the Defence that Jeremy had three adults to control in the house that morning,yet when it comes to contemplating that Jeremy may have used a silencer hands go up amongst the Jeremy supporters and perish the thought that one was used..

Told by the defence? It's a fact!! What does the silencer have to do with having three adults to control?

[Jane]

We are constantly being told by the Defence that Jeremy had three adults to control in the house that morning,yet when it comes to contemplating that Jeremy may have used a silencer hands go up amongst the Jeremy supporters and perish the thought that one was used..

So you don't find suspicious the discovery of a silencer in a cupboard, several days after the police had apparently searched it, by those who stood to make the most from Jeremy's conviction? Added to which we now have in our midst, a poster who seems to have more knowledge of firearms than the rest of us put together, and he has said for very much more erudite reasons that I, that the use of a silencer would have been as advantageous as one loaf of bread in a famine.

[Steve_uk]

Now this suggestion does not sit well with me and to my mind is just illogical. To blame her lie on Jeremy lying to her when we only have her word for suggesting that there was a hit-man? Nothing from anybody else at all. Even the so called hit-man denies it.
How on earth can you suggest that it was Jeremy that was lying and not Mugford herself? Indeed if anything this lie is an indication that her whole statement was spurious.

You have to take the timeline into consideration before you peruse the hitman detail in Julie's statement. Here is a 21 year-old student(20 at the time of murders,19 when they met) under the influence of Jeremy,one may say besotted,going along with every word he says maybe at the expense of her better judgement. The murders occur and the official verdict is four murders and a suicide from the Head of Essex Police DCI Taff Jones no less,who is shooing away the powerful,landed relatives from his office,let alone an outsider like Julie with her story in her mind. She quizzes Jeremy about the murders like a dog with a bone,and Jeremy makes up the first thing which comes into his head about a hitman,though does admit to being the instigator,which totally destroys any love or respect Julie once held for him. She finally realizes he's a sociopath at Blazer's Restaurant,Blackheath where Jeremy admits he "feels nothing for them..maybe there is something wrong with me.." and coupled with the relatives' suspicions Julie determines on telling what she knows..

[lookout]

Steve,,was JM still under the influence of Jeremy when she collected her £25,000 ? Bull.

[Steve_uk]

Told by the defence? It's a fact!! What does the silencer have to do with having three adults to control?

I would have thought that given Nevill was mistrustful of Jeremy after Osea Road and June was known to be a light sleeper it would give Jeremy more an element of surprise..

[Jane]

You have to take the timeline into consideration before you peruse the hitman detail in Julie's statement. Here is a 21 year-old student(20 at the time of murders,19 when they met) under the influence of Jeremy,one may say besotted,going along with every word he says maybe at the expense of her better judgement. The murders occur and the official verdict is four murders and a suicide from the Head of Essex Police DCI Taff Jones no less,who is shooing away the powerful,landed relatives from his office,let alone an outsider like Julie with her story in her mind. She quizzes Jeremy about the murders like a dog with a bone,and Jeremy makes up the first thing which comes into his head about a hitman,though does admit to being the instigator,which totally destroys any love or respect Julie once held for him. She finally realizes he's a sociopath at Blazer's Restaurant,Blackheath where Jeremy admits he "feels nothing for them..maybe there is something wrong with me.." and coupled with the relatives' suspicions Julie determines on telling what she knows..

Yeah. Here we have a very savvy, streetwise student who earns extra money by working in a winebar. A bright girl who had probably sussed Jeremy out long before he noticed her. She saw him as being a good catch and clung like a leech. She proves herself more than capable of acting both illegally AND immorally during the course of their relationship and that APART from supposedly being privy to his plans. She also shows herself to be quite devoid of compassion when she has NO understanding that to feel NOTHING after an emotional trauma is reasonable, but I suppose it served as an excuse and salved her conscience when she went to the police.

[Steve_uk]

Yes we have been over this with me and you keep missing the point. WHY would Vanezis change what he had written in his original notes from hand'S' WERE bloodstained to hands WEREN'T bloodstained??

I can see one of the hands in that by now infamous photograph and there appear to be droplets of blood but otherwise her hands do look clean and perfectly manicured to boot,as commented upon by Police at the time.

[Steve_uk]

So you don't find suspicious the discovery of a silencer in a cupboard, several days after the police had apparently searched it, by those who stood to make the most from Jeremy's conviction? Added to which we now have in our midst, a poster who seems to have more knowledge of firearms than the rest of us put together, and he has said for very much more erudite reasons that I, that the use of a silencer would have been as advantageous as one loaf of bread in a famine.

He also stated that the rifle would be difficult to use discharging one bullet at a time.

[Jane]

He also stated that the rifle would be difficult to use discharging one bullet at a time.

The silencer has little to do with the discharging of ammunition.