Killing of victims took place in isolated manner...

[mike tesko]

Sheila was able to kill everyone (Ralph, june, Daniel and Nicholas) because her parents were isolated from one another when she was overcome by the devil, and shot everyone...

Kids were dispatched in their bedroom, with no evidence to suggest that either Ralph, or June, or anyone else for that matter, had stepped in to try and prevent the kids from being shot, or that anyone had attempted to keep either child alive once both had been shot? With this in mind then, we can safely assume that if Sheila was/is the killer, that she was able to dispatch her boys undisturbed by interference from any living sole...

This suggests to me that Sheila might have either shot and killed her boys first, by quickly discharging 8 bullets into the heads of her children, and that they were killed in the blink of an eye before either grandparent could possibly do anything to prevent it occurring, or Sheila shot and killed her boys later once either Ralph and june had been shot but not necessarily killed, but let's just say incapacitated, or isolated from each other?

One thing we can be sure about, which could prove to be very telling, is that both of them were shot whilst sleeping in their respective beds, oblivious of the identity of the person who had cut short their young lives, unlike either grandparent who must have stared at some point directly Into the killers eyes?

[mike tesko]

No transfer of blood between Nanny June and grandchildren, or vice versa, no evidence to suggest that Nan had set foot inside the kids bedroom, once the kids or nan had been shot...

[mike tesko]

No transfer of blood between Nanny June and grandchildren, or vice versa, no evidence to suggest that Nan had set foot inside the kids bedroom, once the kids or nan had been shot...

Same argument involving granddad Ralph, except that in his case he had the same "O” type blood as his grandchildren - hence the possibility that "O” type blood found on Ralphs pyjama`s, and wall paper at the top of the stairs, could technically speaking be blood from the children, or Ralph? This evidence, therefore, goes to the heart of the matter concerning whether or not Ralph was shot upstairs or not? This is particularly interesting, since, if the "O" type blood found on the wallpaper on the stairs belonged to, or originated from either or both child victims, instead of belonging to, or originating from Ralph, this would be evidence capable of supporting Jeremys claim that in the telephone call he received from his dad, his father told him, ”Sheila`s got the gun, she's gone crazy, come quickly"? If Ralph was disturbed and went to investigate in the children's bedroom he could have come across all manner of horror once he arrived there and had been confronted by a gun wielding Sheila, who proceeded to order him at gun point downstairs to get Ralph to try and lure Jeremy to the farm? This might tie in with what jeremy reported to the police about what his father had told him during his call, as well as tie in with DCI `Taff' jones belief that sheila had frogmarched Ralph downstairs at gun point to make the call to try to lure Jeremy to the farm, so that Sheila could kill Jeremy along with everyone else - the circular burn marks made by the barrel of the gun on the back of Ralphs neck, also being evidence of Sheila forcing Ralph to make the call to Jeremy?`

[mike tesko]

On the other hand, and let's assume that the part about Sheila forcing Ralph downstairs at gun point for the purpose of trying to lure Jeremy to the farm, is true - it may well be that when Ralph said to Jeremy ”sheila`s got the gun, she's gone crazy, he could have been referring to Sheila having shot him in the arm, hence the presence of his "O" type blood on the wall paper at the top of the stairs. Sheila could have forced Ralph downstairs at gun point irrespective of Ralph having discovered the children shot, or if only Ralph had been shot, or both...

[mike tesko]

If DNA profiling had been available at the time these shootings fell to be investigated,
 So many of the mysteries which have cropped up from time to time, would be resolved and the case might not even have got to court in the first instance. One such mystery involves the source of the blood (”O" type) found on the wallpaper on the stairs, imagine if DNA could have established it was blood from one or other child victim? Such a result would lend some credence to Ralph having made the call to jeremy, and given impetus to the suggestion that Sheila was responsible, and that she had, and did shoot and kill her children, and her parents, in keeping with the findings of the original investigation (SC/688/8) under `Taff`...

[mike tesko]

Another feature to be closely looked at, is what did Ralph mean when he mentioned that "she`s gone crazy”?

Did he mean sheila had shot the children, or that Sheila had shot june, or that Sheila had shot him, or any permutation of the foregoing possibilities?

Or could he have simply been referring to the fact that Sheila had lost her mind, and that she was now in possession of "THE” gun, which she had at that very moment been prodding into the back of his neck - other evidence that was capable of supporting the case for Ralph having been stood using the phone in keeping with jeremy`s account was the presence of a bloodied handprint on the edge of the kitchen worktop, and multiple spots of dripped blood on the kitchen floor in that same vicinity...

[mike tesko]

As far as I can see (with out reference to the alleged recovery of 14 bullet cases from in and around the main bedroom area) I have not seen any evidence that Ralph got Shot in the main bedroom, albeit I will concede that he could have been shot in the arm before Sheila forced him to go downstairs at gun point to call Jeremy...

Ralph appears to have been incapacitated whilst he was downstairs in the kitchen, and by that I am also referring to at least 7 of the 8 shots he sustained...

The reason why I come to this conclusion s many fold, but includes for the fact that not one drop of Ralph's blood (”O” type) was found anywhere at all in the main bedroom. I also think the location where the 14 bullet cases were supposedly found in the main bedroom is/has been falsified so that a false impression was presented to discredit the claim made by jeremy that his dad called him? If ralph had been shot up to four times whilst in the bedroom he could hardly have been expected to speak to Jeremy on the phone, since one of those four non fatal bullets smashed and broke his jawbone...

Additionally, and perhaps far more crucially, imagine if jeremy had been the killer, he would have known Ralph had been shot in the mouth upstairs in the bedroom, if ralph had been shot in the mouth in the bedroom, so why would he be relying on the phone call details, do you not think he would have had enough intelligence to know and realize that if Ralph had been shot, once, twice, three or four times in the bedroom, that the police would find evidence to back this up? Well, as it turns out police found no such evidence so they got around that problem by falsifying the bullet case evidence...

[mike tesko]

There seems to be a common perception that the children were shot first?

Small children are far more likely to be woken by internal factors eg minor illnesses, bad dreams etc than external factors eg noise.  Anyone with children will know that they often sleep through loud storms, alarms, parties, guests coming and going and even being picked up and moved.  Also the twins had been on the farm 2/3 days probably running around outside and staying up later than normal and as such are likely to have been very tired.  Also one of the twins was obviously shot first with no disturbance from the other.  Granted we are talking picoseconds. 

Is it know whether the shot on the stairs/hall was fired from the top or bottom?  Is it possible that this could have been the first shot?

I have looked at WHF layout in the archive library and it appears that Neville and June's bedroom can be entered and exited by two doors - is this correct?

If Jeremy was the killer how could he have overpowered three adults pretty much simultaneously?  Or even think it would be possible?  Surely anyone planning such an act would be deterred by the obvious risks?  Had Sheila not intended to carry out what in her mind would be the altruistic killings of the twins then she would have fought tooth and nail to protect them.  There is no evidence of this happening.

Correct, absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Sheila or anybody else tried to protect the twins at all the night they got shot and killed, this is strange if Sheila was not the killer, since not anyone of the three adults present at the farmhouse did anything to protect the kids, instead they  appear to have been passive at the critical stage when twins got shot...

One of the two doors in the main bedroom, led directly into the children's bedroom...

Shot on landing was fired upstairs...

[mike tesko]

According to the evidence, there was no physical interaction between any of the victims other than some bloody marks found on Sheila's right arm, and deep gouge marks on Ralphs right forearm, suggestive that there may have been/was some sort on conflict or altercation between Sheila and Ralph during the incident...

It has also been stated that the fingers of sheila`s right hand were not bloodied, and that bloodied marks found on the front lower part of her nightdress had been made by sheila's bloodstained wrist, but it seems to me that this mark could have been made by the bloodied fingermarks of Ralph, who was also responsible for leaving bloodied fingermarks on the edge of the kitchen worktop near to the phone...

[mike tesko]

It is unbelievable to find that there was no apparent physIcal interaction at all between june and Ralph, once the shootings started? What needs to be looked at more closely is the reason why Ralph did not come to assist his wife once she had been shot (no less than 5 times) whilst laying in bed?

[Newbury1]

It is unbelievable to find that there was no apparent physical interaction at all between June and Ralph, once the shootings started? What needs to be looked at more closely is the reason why Ralph did not come to assist his wife once she had been shot (no less than 5 times) whilst laying in bed?

Mike, how would this affect whether it was JB or SC?

As there was no blood from Nevill found in the master bedroom, and we do not know the sequence of deaths... perhaps Nevill was killed downstairs in the kitchen before June died, and therefore he could not come to Junes, Sheilas or the twins assistance........!!

Maybe the killer placed the additional bullet cases in the master bedroom after thay were all killed to confuse the police... !

[mike tesko]

Mike, how would this affect whether it was JB or SC?

As there was no blood from Nevill found in the master bedroom, and we do not know the sequence of deaths... perhaps Nevill was killed downstairs in the kitchen before June died, and therefore he could not come to Junes, Sheilas or the twins assistance........!!

Maybe the killer placed the additional bullet cases in the master bedroom after thay were all killed to confuse the police... !

If the killer was/is Sheila, she had the opportunity to spring into action against individual victims at times when all parties were somewhat isolated from one another, whereas if jeremy was/is the killer there was/is a greater prospect of the three adults coming to the  aid of one or other of the victims?

These are the differences between Sheila being the killer, as opposed to it being jeremy?

[Roch]

A difficult thread to read for obvious reasons.  Nevertheless some quality posts and egap's general contribution gets better and better, imo. 

[Roch]

If the killer was/is Sheila, she had the opportunity to spring into action against individual victims at times when all parties were somewhat isolated from one another, whereas if jeremy was/is the killer there was/is a greater prospect of the three adults coming to the  aid of one or other of the victims?

These are the differences between Sheila being the killer, as opposed to it being jeremy?

I have always envisaged Sheila as having taken the other farmhouse occupants by surprise, there being a startled realisation of the horror taking place.  Perhaps slow reactions.  Disbelief.  Confusion.  I have been one of the posters who took for granted that the two young lads lost their lives first.  But there is an interesting point made about children sleeping heavily.

[mertol22]

Several factors are available to answer why the boys were not disturbed, type of house, location, no no passing traffic, within 4 weeks i will be staying at a convent bed and b , within 10 mins my 1st night i will be out like a light same conditions.