Gun tests in Arizona

[Newbury1]

The gun tests in Arizona were carried out in part to suggest the burn marks to Nevills back were caused by a rifle without a silencer fitted.

At trial, and maybe to simplify matters, EP declared that only one gun was used by the murderer (with a silencer fitted).

Mike, amongst others, has alluded on some occasions to the possibility that another gun may have been used at whf that fateful night (as all the shots could not be directly connected to the Bamber rifle).

For the sake of debate what if another gun (Pargetters or the unique weapon handed in shortly after the murders) was used as well?

(e.g. 10 shots fired from the Bamber rifle (1 magazine of 10 bullets) and 15 shots from Pargetters (I magazine of 10 bullets and one of 5 bullets) = 25 shots).

We could therefore have one rifle with a silencer fitted (used to kill the twins (5 & 3 shots) and SC (2 shots) = 10 shots).

And one rifle without a silencer fitted (used to Kill Nevill (8 shots) and burn his back, and June (7 shots) = 15 shots?

[ngb1066]

The gun tests in Arizona were carried out in part to suggest the burn marks to Nevills back were caused by a rifle without a silencer fitted.

At trial, and maybe to simplify matters, EP declared that only one gun was used by the murderer (with a silencer fitted).

Mike, amongst others, has alluded on some occasions to the possibility that another gun may have been used at whf that fateful night (as all the shots could not be directly connected to the Bamber rifle).

For the sake of debate what if another gun (Pargetters or the unique weapon handed in shortly after the murders) was used as well?

(e.g. 10 shots fired from the Bamber rifle (1 magazine of 10 bullets) and 15 shots from Pargetters (I magazine of 10 bullets and one of 5 bullets) = 25 shots).

We could therefore have one rifle with a silencer fitted (used to kill the twins (5 & 3 shots) and SC (2 shots) = 10 shots). And one rifle without a silencer fitted (used to Kill Nevill (8 shots) and burn his back, and June (7 shots) = 15 shots?

The new evidence  suggests that Sheila was shot without the silencer fitted.

[Roch]

Nick, my take on this is that if there were two or more guns used, that would have been the case presented by prosecution at trial.  The fact that it wasn't, suggests to me two possible reasons.  (A) There was only one gun used.  (B), There was more than one gun used but it does not suit the police version of events to present the prosecution case as such.

I do not believe it can be brought to bear upon Jeremy Bamber (i.e. throwing a spanner in the works regarding claims of innocence) precisely because of my first sentence.

[ngb1066]

The defence believe that only one rifle was used, without the silencer fitted.

[JackiePreece]

Nick what % are you on innocent or guilty

[curiousessex]

The new evidence  suggests that Sheila was shot without the silencer fitted.

NGB

In your opinion do such tests make Jeremy innocent of the crime or do such tests only undermine the prosecution's case against him?

The conviction could be deemed unsafe if the CCRC decide to refer to the Court of Appeal.

Being devil's advocate, could it remain there is a possibility that whilst Jeremy may have his conviction quashed he could still also have committed the act in using a gun that did not have a silencer fitted. Or a combination of weapons given there were a number of guns in White House Farm?

[Roch]

The Sword of Damocles held above Bamber's head has been...

'How could Sheila have shot her self with the silencer on and then placed it in the gun cupboard?' 

'Who put the silencer in the gun cupboard?'

'How could Sheila have shot her self with the silencer on?  her arms were too short.'

How many people have cited such statements over the years and then finished their statements about Jeremy Bamber being 'bang to rights' and evil etc?

I think first things first.  Let's have some recognition from the guilty camp that such conceptions were in fact false and misleading.  I'm speaking in general here.  Let's see some humility from the guilty camp with regards to world renowned experts showing up the sword held over Bamber's head as being made of bendy plastic.

[ngb1066]

NGB

In your opinion do such tests make Jeremy innocent of the crime or do such tests only undermine the prosecution's case against him?

The conviction could be deemed unsafe if the CCRC decide to refer to the Court of Appeal.

Being devil's advocate, could it remain there is a possibility that whilst Jeremy may have his conviction quashed he could still also have committed the act in using a gun that did not have a silencer fitted. Or a combination of weapons given there were a number of guns in White House Farm?

The tests undermine an essential element of the prosecution case, but they do not prove that Jeremy is innocent.  Other evidence which is likely to be presented following a referral of the case goes further and supports the view that Sheila was responsible.

In answer to your second question, yes it is possible, but the weight of the evidence is likely to be against that possibility.

[Newbury1]

The new evidence  suggests that Sheila was shot without the silencer fitted.

Okay -

"one rifle with a silencer fitted (used to kill the twins (5 & 3 shots) and SC (2 shots with silencer removed) = 10 shots).

[Roch]

Okay -

"one rifle with a silencer fitted (used to kill the twins (5 & 3 shots) and SC (2 shots with silencer removed) = 10 shots).

Nick.  According to the prosecution...  who's blood was supposed to be in or on the silencer?

[Newbury1]

Nick what % are you on innocent or guilty

Jackie, I get the feeling I am being led into a trap, but to answer honestly I am 80% of the opinion JB is guilty (I have answered this before on the forum); 

But it is also my opinion that evidence has been fabricated. Now on this subject I believe we differ quite a lot - but please understand I do not support the use of noble cause corruption or evidence tampering.

I think most on the forum probably believe fabricated / tampered evidence = JB innocent!

However a recent quote from ngb sums it up - "The tests undermine an essential element of the prosecution case, but they do not prove that Jeremy is innocent."

[ngb1066]

Okay -

"one rifle with a silencer fitted (used to kill the twins (5 & 3 shots) and SC (2 shots with silencer removed) = 10 shots).

Nick - if a second rifle was used, what happened to it? 

[Roch]

Neil,

In your opinion, how likely is it that a multi weapon murder crime scene, would reach trial as a single weapon crime scene prosecution?

[Newbury1]

Nick.  According to the prosecution...  who's blood was supposed to be in or on the silencer?

I can answer that one for you roch  - According to the prosecution it was SC's blood.

However; I believe the blood flake was planted and the silencer(s) evidence was tampered with! - see my comments above and ref to a quote from ngb!

[ngb1066]

Neil,

In your opinion, how likely is it that a multi weapon murder crime scene, would reach trial as a single weapon crime scene prosecution?

I find it difficult to envisage the two weapon scenario.  I do not see any reason why the police would conceal evidence of a second weapon having been used.