The telephones

[bb2010]

I'm sure Mike will respond at some stage. I don't know enough to add anything )

[Kaldin]

I think the issue of the call to the police was dealt with in the 2002 appeal.

PC West recorded the time of the appellant's call as 3.36 a.m. At trial it was accepted that the officer had misread a digital clock. The officer's contact with Mr Bonnett was recorded as being at 3.26 a.m. and it seems clear that the appellant's call must have been at 3.26 a.m. or very shortly before.

It seems that they saw the log which Malcolm Bonnet made, and possibly one which PC West made. I'm not sure that there's anything new really.

[shonapugs]

Why should Jeremy take the gamble of contacting the police at all? Why not commit the murders, spend more time staging the scene so that there can be little doubt that it was 4 murders and a suicide, return home, and let a member of the farm staff discover everything in the morning?

[Kaldin]

Why should Jeremy take the gamble of contacting the police at all? Why not commit the murders, spend more time staging the scene so that there can be little doubt that it was 4 murders and a suicide, return home, and let a member of the farm staff discover everything in the morning?

A very good point. He might have wanted an alibi of course, but the phone call to the police didn't give him one anyway. I can't think of a good reason why he needed the bodies to be discovered that night.

[mike tesko]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

-----------------------------------------------

Jeremy was not Sheila's father, and Sheila was not his daughter...

[Kaldin]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

-----------------------------------------------

Jeremy was not Sheila's father, and Sheila was not his daughter...

You missed this bit:

Message passed to CD by the son of Mr Bamber after the phone went dead.

Although it appears that PC West is repeating what Neville said, I think he's actually repeating what Jeremy said.

[mike tesko]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

----------------------------------------

There is evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3:36am, and that Ralph called the police at 3:26am...

You cannot seek to exclude an official Essex police document on the one hand (with reference to the call made by Ralph Bamber at 3:26am) and yet seek to rely upon a similar document which talks about a call made to the police by Jeremy, at 3:36am? Similarly, you cannot displace the timing of the call made by Ralph, as shown in this Essex police document which Ralph Made at 3:26am, and claim that Jeremy made the call at 3:26am, just because you want it to support you're theory...

Both records exist, a record of Ralph's call timed at 3:26am, and a record of Jeremy's call timed at 3:36am - let the court of appeal decide which is evidence, or not...

[bb2010]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

----------------------------------------

There is evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3:36am, and that Ralph called the police at 3:26am...

You cannot seek to exclude an official Essex police document on the one hand (with reference to the call made by Ralph Bamber at 3:26am) and yet seek to rely upon a similar document which talks about a call made to the police by Jeremy, at 3:36am? Similarly, you cannot displace the timing of the call made by Ralph, as shown in this Essex police document which Ralph Made at 3:26am, and claim that Jeremy made the call at 3:26am, just because you want it to support you're theory...

Both records exist, a record of Ralph's call timed at 3:26am, and a record of Jeremy's call timed at 3:36am - let the court of appeal decide which is evidence, or not...

I will go off topic a bit here but relate it to reliance on one document for comparison. You rightly state that you can't rely on one official document then exclude another because it may not fit with what you want. The example that springs to my mind is the reliance on the log that says that police are in conversation with someone in the farmhouse - and use this to justify an actual conversation taking place, proving that someone was alive in the farm house at 5.25am. It isn't then mentioned that the next two entries in the same log state

0528hrs (LOG 1)
PC Myall return, take CA7 (A101) around to house. Numerous challenges to house no response.

0529hrs (wireless message log and communications log)
From CA7 - challenge to persons inside house met with no response

Like you said though, the court will decide.

[mike tesko]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

----------------------------------------

There is evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3:36am, and that Ralph called the police at 3:26am...

You cannot seek to exclude an official Essex police document on the one hand (with reference to the call made by Ralph Bamber at 3:26am) and yet seek to rely upon a similar document which talks about a call made to the police by Jeremy, at 3:36am? Similarly, you cannot displace the timing of the call made by Ralph, as shown in this Essex police document which Ralph Made at 3:26am, and claim that Jeremy made the call at 3:26am, just because you want it to support you're theory...

Both records exist, a record of Ralph's call timed at 3:26am, and a record of Jeremy's call timed at 3:36am - let the court of appeal decide which is evidence, or not...

I will go off topic a bit here but relate it to reliance on one document for comparison. You rightly state that you can't rely on one official document then exclude another because it may not fit with what you want. The example that springs to my mind is the reliance on the log that says that police are in conversation with someone in the farmhouse - and use this to justify an actual conversation taking place, proving that someone was alive in the farm house at 5.25am. It isn't then mentioned that the next two entries in the same log state

0528hrs (LOG 1)
PC Myall return, take CA7 (A101) around to house. Numerous challenges to house no response.

0529hrs (wireless message log and communications log)
From CA7 - challenge to persons inside house met with no response

Like you said though, the court will decide.

--------------------------------------------------

With respect, the occupants of CA07, at this time, (05:28hrs and 05:29hrs) was PS Saxby, who was sat in a patrol car along Pages lane, who would not be in a position to know, what was being said at the house some 200 to 300 yards away, nor would he have been privy to radio messages which were being passed on the firearms radio frequency which is different to that of normal police radio Chanel...

Police records show that Firearms officers were in conversation with a person from inside the farm, at 05:25hrs, and this can only be interpreted to mean that at that time, there was someone who was still alive inside whf, who the police were in conversation with...

How else can this be interpreted?

[Kaldin]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

----------------------------------------

There is evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3:36am, and that Ralph called the police at 3:26am...

You cannot seek to exclude an official Essex police document on the one hand (with reference to the call made by Ralph Bamber at 3:26am) and yet seek to rely upon a similar document which talks about a call made to the police by Jeremy, at 3:36am? Similarly, you cannot displace the timing of the call made by Ralph, as shown in this Essex police document which Ralph Made at 3:26am, and claim that Jeremy made the call at 3:26am, just because you want it to support you're theory...

Both records exist, a record of Ralph's call timed at 3:26am, and a record of Jeremy's call timed at 3:36am - let the court of appeal decide which is evidence, or not...

On the police log which was kept by Malcolm Bonnet, it clearly says that the message was passed to PC West by the son of Mr Bamber. That message was logged at 3.26. Jeremy could hardly have passed a message at 3.26 if he didn't call until 3.36.

Where is the record of the call that Jeremy made at 3.36? I can't find that.

[Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

----------------------------------------

There is evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3:36am, and that Ralph called the police at 3:26am...

You cannot seek to exclude an official Essex police document on the one hand (with reference to the call made by Ralph Bamber at 3:26am) and yet seek to rely upon a similar document which talks about a call made to the police by Jeremy, at 3:36am? Similarly, you cannot displace the timing of the call made by Ralph, as shown in this Essex police document which Ralph Made at 3:26am, and claim that Jeremy made the call at 3:26am, just because you want it to support you're theory...

Both records exist, a record of Ralph's call timed at 3:26am, and a record of Jeremy's call timed at 3:36am - let the court of appeal decide which is evidence, or not...

I will go off topic a bit here but relate it to reliance on one document for comparison. You rightly state that you can't rely on one official document then exclude another because it may not fit with what you want. The example that springs to my mind is the reliance on the log that says that police are in conversation with someone in the farmhouse - and use this to justify an actual conversation taking place, proving that someone was alive in the farm house at 5.25am. It isn't then mentioned that the next two entries in the same log state

0528hrs (LOG 1)
PC Myall return, take CA7 (A101) around to house. Numerous challenges to house no response.

0529hrs (wireless message log and communications log)
From CA7 - challenge to persons inside house met with no response

Like you said though, the court will decide.

I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make here. It is entirely possible that someone inside the farmhouse was talking to the police at 5.25am but had stopped responding to them at 5.28am.

[mike tesko]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

----------------------------------------

There is evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3:36am, and that Ralph called the police at 3:26am...

You cannot seek to exclude an official Essex police document on the one hand (with reference to the call made by Ralph Bamber at 3:26am) and yet seek to rely upon a similar document which talks about a call made to the police by Jeremy, at 3:36am? Similarly, you cannot displace the timing of the call made by Ralph, as shown in this Essex police document which Ralph Made at 3:26am, and claim that Jeremy made the call at 3:26am, just because you want it to support you're theory...

Both records exist, a record of Ralph's call timed at 3:26am, and a record of Jeremy's call timed at 3:36am - let the court of appeal decide which is evidence, or not...

I will go off topic a bit here but relate it to reliance on one document for comparison. You rightly state that you can't rely on one official document then exclude another because it may not fit with what you want. The example that springs to my mind is the reliance on the log that says that police are in conversation with someone in the farmhouse - and use this to justify an actual conversation taking place, proving that someone was alive in the farm house at 5.25am. It isn't then mentioned that the next two entries in the same log state

0528hrs (LOG 1)
PC Myall return, take CA7 (A101) around to house. Numerous challenges to house no response.

0529hrs (wireless message log and communications log)
From CA7 - challenge to persons inside house met with no response

Like you said though, the court will decide.

I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make here. It is entirely possible that someone inside the farmhouse was talking to the police at 5.25am but had stopped responding to them at 5.28am.

------------------

Good point, and well thought out...

[bb2010]

The problem with there being several forums for this is that many of the topics have been debated elsewhere. Feel free to look at the other forums as that means I don't have to go through and pull all the bits out of there and paste them here. Apologies for that, maybe I should have stuck to the sleuthing site.

[mike tesko]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.

-----------------------------------------------

Jeremy was not Sheila's father, and Sheila was not his daughter...

You missed this bit:

Message passed to CD by the son of Mr Bamber after the phone went dead.

Although it appears that PC West is repeating what Neville said, I think he's actually repeating what Jeremy said.

--------------------------------------------

Is the bit which refers to a message that was passed by son, timed?

That part could easily have been added later, once the police decided to merge both calls into the same call, as part of the plan to disorientate Jeremy and try to confuse him. If you look closely enough, you can seen that the hand writing where this is mentioned is different to the handwriting which records the details attributed to Ralph Bamber about his daughter having got hold of one of his guns...

[bb2010]

The problem with there being several forums for this is that many of the topics have been debated elsewhere. Feel free to look at the other forums as that means I don't have to go through and pull all the bits out of there and paste them here. Apologies for that, maybe I should have stuck to the sleuthing site.

Just an example of what is on the sleuthingforjustice site. If it breaks forum rules, the moderator can remove it.