The telephones

[Kaldin]

This is from the appeal document.

There were normally four telephones at White House Farm (although there was only one telephone line). A cream old-fashioned finger-dial telephone kept in the main bedroom (the bedroom telephone), a blue digital telephone in the first floor office (the office telephone), a cream cordless telephone kept in the kitchen but used around and outside the house (the cordless telephone) and a fawn digital telephone also kept in the kitchen (the kitchen telephone). The only telephone with a memory recall feature was the cordless telephone but this had been faulty and was collected for repair on the morning of 5 August 1985.

The telephone that had been found with the receiver off its cradle in the kitchen was in fact the bedroom telephone, which had been moved downstairs. The kitchen telephone had been hidden amongst a pile of magazines in the kitchen. The office telephone was in its normal place.

Why was the bedroom telephone downstairs, and when was it moved? The kitchen telephone was not faulty. Is it possible that Ralph phoned Jeremy from the bedroom, and the phone was moved to the kitchen later? If so, why and by whom?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7fhwXn2ToQAJ:www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com/downloads/bamber/1212RS40.rtf+jeremy+bamber+pc+west&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[bb2010]

Could the re-positioning of the bedroom phone, the repair of the cordless and the hiding of the actual kitchen phone be clues as to how Ralph Bamber came to be downstairs?

As I recall, large farm houses at this time may have used their phones as internal intercom systems, this was quite popular in the mid 80's and I know a family who had such a system.

Supposing that the killer has spent months planning the perfect crime, could the killer have used such an internal intercom system to call the phone that had been repositioned in the kitchen since the killer knew that the likelihood was that Ralph would come down and answer it. Thus enabling the killer to pick off the strongest victim first.

Just putting the thought out there.

[Kaldin]

Could the re-positioning of the bedroom phone, the repair of the cordless and the hiding of the actual kitchen phone be clues as to how Ralph Bamber came to be downstairs?

As I recall, large farm houses at this time may have used their phones as internal intercom systems, this was quite popular in the mid 80's and I know a family who had such a system.

Supposing that the killer has spent months planning the perfect crime, could the killer have used such an internal intercom system to call the phone that had been repositioned in the kitchen since the killer knew that the likelihood was that Ralph would come down and answer it. Thus enabling the killer to pick off the strongest victim first.

Just putting the thought out there.

Nice theory. You mean the killer hid the kitchen phone, so Neville put the bedroom phone in the kitchen? Or the killer put the bedroom phone in the kitchen at some point in the evening and then called that phone from the office and Neville came down to answer it in the kitchen. Could you call one internal phone from another though? I read that there was only one line to the house.

Then what about the fact Neville was shot 8 times? There were only 4 cartridges found in or around the kitchen - the rest were upstairs.

[bb2010]

The thing about the phones is puzzling, why was the kitchen one hidden, why take the phone from upstairs and put it in the kitchen when the kitchen one was still in there (albeit hidden). Perhaps the benefit to the killer was that the old style phone was exactly that, older in technology terms than arguably the other phones. The questions abound. Maybe Jeremy could clarify?

As for the internal intercom systems, as far as I know, only one line was needed, no idea how they worked though. The phone may have nothing to do with the main issues. For example, we dont know whether RB was shot first downstairs or first upstairs, he could have been dragged by the killer either way or made his own way (albeit heavily injured) up or down the stairs.

Feel free to have a look on www.sleuthingforjustice.com where Mike Tesko spent a long time posting before coming to this site.

[Kaldin]

The thing about the phones is puzzling, why was the kitchen one hidden, why take the phone from upstairs and put it in the kitchen when the kitchen one was still in there (albeit hidden). Perhaps the benefit to the killer was that the old style phone was exactly that, older in technology terms than arguably the other phones. The questions abound. Maybe Jeremy could clarify?

As for the internal intercom systems, as far as I know, only one line was needed, no idea how they worked though. The phone may have nothing to do with the main issues. For example, we dont know whether RB was shot first downstairs or first upstairs, he could have been dragged by the killer either way or made his own way (albeit heavily injured) up or down the stairs.

Feel free to have a look on www.sleuthingforjustice.com where Mike Tesko spent a long time posting before coming to this site.

I find the phone issue puzzling too. It was skipped over at the trial I think, and at the appeal. Nobody seemed to wonder why the bedroom phone had been moved, or when it was moved.

As for Neville, he could have been shot first downstairs, then made his way upstairs I suppose - to protect his family, then got shot again, and then went back downstairs again. I'm not sure why he would go back downstairs though, or why the killer would move his body.

[bb2010]

Because the killer needs him to "phone the police" and to "phone Jeremy" downstairs?

All just speculation obviously.

[Kaldin]

Because the killer needs him to "phone the police" and to "phone Jeremy" downstairs?

All just speculation obviously.

Why would the killer need Neville to phone the police?

[bb2010]

Assuming that the Killer is the person currently convicted of the crime, he uses the call as part of his alibi.

[Kaldin]

Assuming that the Killer is the person currently convicted of the crime, he uses the call as part of his alibi.

But there's no proof that Neville called the police. There's proof that Jeremy did, but then there's no proof that Neville called him. If the killer was Jeremy, the last thing he would want is for Neville to be calling the police anyway surely.

[bb2010]

When you've has time to soak up all the stuff on this forum and elsewhere you'll find key message logs that say there were 2 calls received one from the farm and one from Jeremy. The evidence might even be in the recent press stuff. I will let someone else dig it out if they want.

A good alibi would perhaps see the killer pretending to be his father and phoning the police on a local number (not 999) from the farm and telling them to come, knowing they are more than ten minutes away. The killer could then call his own number (or not) and leave the phone off the hook. He then goes home and 'receives' the call.

He then calls the police himself (after phoning his girlfriend) to tell them about his 'fathers' call. All in all, it seems as though the has been home all the time?

[Kaldin]

When you've has time to soak up all the stuff on this forum and elsewhere you'll find key message logs that say there were 2 calls received one from the farm and one from Jeremy. The evidence might even be in the recent press stuff. I will let someone else dig it out if they want.

A good alibi would perhaps see the killer pretending to be his father and phoning the police on a local number (not 999) from the farm and telling them to come, knowing they are more than ten minutes away. The killer could then call his own number (or not) and leave the phone off the hook. He then goes home and 'receives' the call.

He then calls the police himself (after phoning his girlfriend) to tell them about his 'fathers' call. All in all, it seems as though the has been home all the time?

I've seen the police logs if that's what you mean, and I don't think that proves that Neville or someone pretending to be Neville called the police - quite the opposite in fact.

[bb2010]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/08/05/jeremy-bamber-missing-police-phone-log-could-clear-bambi-killer-115875-22464725/

[Kaldin]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/08/05/jeremy-bamber-missing-police-phone-log-could-clear-bambi-killer-115875-22464725/

I've seen that one.

It was a log made by Malcolm Bonnet at Chelmsford. He got that information from PC West who took the call. At first glance it looks as if Neville had phoned, but at the bottom of the message it says this:

"Message passed to CD by the son of Mr Bamber after the phone went dead".

To me, that indicates that the log refers to the call that Jeremy made to the police station.

Is there another log or is that the only one?

[bb2010]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article. 

[Kaldin]

I think the key point is that Jeremy is relying on there being a log that his father had phoned the police.

I have only seen a scan of the log in the article.

Well the Mirror claimed they have another log but I've never seen it.

Bamber rang Chelmsford police station at 3.36am, according to a second log also obtained by the Mirror.

There is no evidence that Jeremy called the police at 3.36 am. I think he called them at 3.26 or just before that. The call was taken by PC West who then informed Malcolm Bonnet.