Named members of the raid team - have they pulled the wool over our eyes?

[grahameb]

to be accurate Cresida Dick, operational commander on the day, Firearms officers found to have no case to answer, coroner gave instruction for an open verdict

The name "Dick" does seem to shout out.

[grahameb]

What seems to be important to me, is the timing of the first shot, followed by the timing of the second shot, and the whereabouts of the rifle which was subsequently photographed on Sheila's body from 10am, onwards?

If when Sheila was originally shot, downstairs, the rifle was still leaning up against the bedroom window, upstairs, then of course that rifle could not have fired the first shot (downstairs) involving the fragmented bullet (PV/20)?

Mike. You're cross examining yourself.

[grahameb]

Rochy the trouble is everytime it looks like a successful appeal might happen it shows up massive huge mistakes that happened that night including an accident when  Sheila could have been murdered

Everytime that looks clearer I can see the shredders going full speed destroying any actual

evidence to prove that Sheila was killed by the police


Unless some police officer really do come forward I don't believe the police involvement will ever be made public

Also it looks like Simon is concentrating on different issues right now

The second appeal was based on enough evidence to get Jeremy's sentence quashed. Why wasn't it? Why was it thrown out.

[Jackiepreece]

A police officer who lives above my friend used to be a firearms officer and now trains fire arms officers is one of the most horrible arrogant people you could ever meet day to day. I dread to think what he is like in uniform
Power mad

[grahameb]

A police officer who lives above my friend used to be a firearms officer and now trains fire arms officers is one of the most horrible arrogant people you could ever meet day to day. I dread to think what he is like in uniform
Power mad

I think you will find Jackie that as soon as they go to their training camps they immediately mould them into the same kind of thinking. That is of course why all cops thinks alike. You will inevitable find as well, with a few exceptions that they tend to at all times back one another up. Keep this in mind. No one likes anyone who rocks the boat. As long as the ship runs smoothly they don't really care if they are right or wrong. True.

[mertol22]

A police officer who lives above my friend used to be a firearms officer and now trains fire arms officers is one of the most horrible arrogant people you could ever meet day to day. I dread to think what he is like in uniform
Power mad

power = corruption

[tonyb]

Well I'm sure that was a great comfort to de Menzies family that he was shot "correctly" by instructions of a "superiour".

however,correctly shot he was.I was just taking issue with the for than less thread

[tonyb]

Sounds like overkill to me? Remind me not to take the tube carrying a back pack will you. I wouldn't want to come up against these incompetents.

think back 14 days...carnage above and below ground... A "suspect" gets on the train with a back pack... In the chaos that ensued (and I'm sure there must of been operational chaos) JC deMenz became an unfortunate casualty of terrorism. as for overkill,one bullet would be ridiculous,multiple head shots incapcitate you instantly IMO

[grahameb]

think back 14 days...carnage above and below ground... A "suspect" gets on the train with a back pack... In the chaos that ensued (and I'm sure there must of been operational chaos) JC deMenz became an unfortunate casualty of terrorism. as for overkill,one bullet would be ridiculous,multiple head shots incapcitate you instantly IMO

Except he wasn't a suspect. They lost the suspect between his home and the tube. Even then there was no bomb after all even if they had the right man. No, they still messed up. He wasn;t shot correctly. He was shot mistakenly.

[andrea]

Didnt police surveillance teams see jcm regularly visiting flats where known terrorists were living?

[grahameb]

Didnt police surveillance teams see jcm regularly visiting flats where known terrorists were living?

Well lets just home the folks next door to you or I are not terrorists, or I might get shot by the cops when I go round to borrow a cup of milk? It has been established that he was a completely innocent victim. Also those so called experience officers got off scot free because of their "correct" behaviour. The one in charge should have been shoved down in the filing department for the rest of their working lives. Just because they are cops they got off. If it were you or I we would have got the book thrown at us and would have been thrown in gaol. I wonder if we would be engaged in this cold reasoning if he was one of our own family? Would we be so ready to justify the cops for their incompetence?

[andrea]

Didnt they see him visiting the actual flat where the  terrorists were living?

I havent said it was right what the police did, but they have a decision to make based on the evidence they had at that time.

[mertol22]

Didnt they see him visiting the actual flat where the  terrorists were living?

I havent said it was right what the police did, but they have a decision to make based on the evidence they had at that time.

They did Andrea and as usual botched it up, remember the lies that Iraq could hit the west within 20 mins with terror weapons, botch after botch completly hopeless .

[bob]

Well lets just home the folks next door to you or I are not terrorists, or I might get shot by the cops when I go round to borrow a cup of milk? It has been established that he was a completely innocent victim. Also those so called experience officers got off scot free because of their "correct" behaviour. The one in charge should have been shoved down in the filing department for the rest of their working lives. Just because they are cops they got off. If it were you or I we would have got the book thrown at us and would have been thrown in gaol. I wonder if we would be engaged in this cold reasoning if he was one of our own family? Would we be so ready to justify the cops for their incompetence?

I was once woken up in my bed at 5am by an armed policeman pointing an MP5 at my head. They occupied the house within seconds, waking each of the four people in four separate bedrooms in similar fashion. Their expertise was incredible, so no way can I accept blanket comments about them being incompetent - if they were I could be dead now.

Accidents are bound to happen in such an environment, but what would you all suggest as an alternative? Not allow the police to ever be armed? Would you prefer a separate military police wing like they have in France? I wouldn't - the psychology involved in that makes for far worse officers IMHO.

[mertol22]

I was once woken up in my bed at 5am by an armed policeman pointing an MP5 at my head. They occupied the house within seconds, waking each of the four people in four separate bedrooms in similar fashion. Their expertise was incredible, so no way can I accept blanket comments about them being incompetent - if they were I could be dead now.

Accidents are bound to happen in such an environment, but what would you all suggest as an alternative? Not allow the police to ever be armed? Would you prefer a separate military police wing like they have in France? I wouldn't - the psychology involved in that makes for far worse officers IMHO.

They are thugs in uniform Bob that are a clear and present danger to us all, if i saw a copper been beat up in the street sorry i would carry on walking an evil bunch trained to lie.