significance of long delay between both shots...

[Hartley]

When it only needed one shot?? And him being such a good shot and all??  To me it just doesn't fit. Its so over the top and unecessary. As you say, Jeremy didn't have any particular problem with the children so I dont understand...although some may say he did that precisely to make it look as though Sheila had gone crazy I guess.

That's another argument I suppose.

You also have to remember that a .22 hollow round from a rimfire rifle, is not guaranteed to cause death.

I don't see the wounds to the children as the killer having gone crazy and excessively violent on them, quite the opposite, I see it as they were coldly and clinically murdered.

It can also be theorised that several of the shots could have come at a later stage, so for example the head shots to Neville and the additional head shots to the twins, the killer may have revisited that room to make sure after the other victims had been murdered.

[grahameb]

All this 100% accuracy lark? It was not surprising that most of the shots hit their target "somewhere" on the victim's bodies as they were probably all fired no more than 6 feet away? The plain fact are that the shots "were" all over the place on the victims. To interpret this as being some kind of torture as some do on the part of Jeremy is ludicrous. Just to explain away the erratic shots to the victims. Anything but that the shooter was inexperienced or in a psychotic episode.

[Hartley]

All this 100% accuracy lark? It was not surprising that most of the shots hit their target "somewhere" on the victim's bodies as they were probably all fired no more than 6 feet away? The plain fact are that the shots "were" all over the place on the victims. To interpret this as being some kind of torture as some do on the part of Jeremy is ludicrous. Just to explain away the erratic shots to the victims. Anything but that the shooter was inexperienced or in a psychotic episode.

You have missed the point entirely I think Grahame.

Expert witnesses have given an opinion that the shooter was competent in the use of the firearm used. What is ludicrous is to completely ignore that, say the shooter was a novice, suggest that Jeremy was a 'crack shot', and then come to the conclusion that it must have been Sheila. Put that to the CCRC and it would be laughed back to you.

[Hartley]

You may also have an opinion about why Jeremy told the police that Sheila knew how to use all the weapons in the house, which is clearly inaccurate.

[Chochokeira]

As I said, we could make anything fit.

Perhaps, if it was Jeremy, who had no particular problem with the children, but did also not want to share the estate with them, then he shot them in their sleep several times to ensure that they did not suffer. one still had their thumb in their mouths.

Only a highly brutalised person could murder his two 6 year old nephews, his mother, his father and sister.

Only someone highly brutalised - and psychotic - could masacre his entire immediate family in the horrific and frenzied manner with which the Bamber and caffell families were murdered.

Jeremy Bamber did not have any history of violence prior to the murders.

During his 26 years of imprisonment, he has, to my knowledge, never shown any trace of being violent.

Bamber's prison governors and warders allow Jeremy to wander around freely and to devote all of his time to researching his case and proving his innocence. Why? Because their long experience of Jeremy and of prison work with murderers tells them that Jeremy Bamber is not a murderer.

Bamber's follow inmates, many of them killers who know a murderer when they see one and who know Jeremy well do not believe that Jeremy Bamber is a murderer. One said, if Bamber's a killer he's a brilliant actor too - but  he ain't that good an actor.

Jeremy's friends who knew him before he was imprisoned say JB is soft as butter and is incapable of murder.

Forgive me for this, I don't wish to upset or offend anyone, but Hartley's belief that Jeremy could look his own, seriously injured, mother in the eyes as the poor woman desperately crawled across the floor in an attempt to escape, then shot her between the eyes - and all merely for money when Jeremy was about to inherit a large sum from his grandma just months hence - that is utter nonsense!

Jeremy Bamber does not have a murderer's profile. He does not have a violent impulse in him, let alone the psychotic instincts of a murderer.

[Chochokeira]

You may also have an opinion about why Jeremy told the police that Sheila knew how to use all the weapons in the house, which is clearly inaccurate.

Can you prove this is inaccurate?

[ngb1066]

Only a highly brutalised person could murder his two 6 year old nephews, his mother, his father and sister.

Only someone highly brutalised - and psychotic - could masacre his entire immediate family in the horrific and frenzied manner with which the Bamber and caffell families were murdered.

Jeremy Bamber did not have any history of violence prior to the murders.

During his 26 years of imprisonment, he has, to my knowledge, never shown any trace of being violent.

Bamber's prison governors and warders allow Jeremy to wander around freely and to devote all of his time to researching his case and proving his innocence. Why? Because their long experience of Jeremy and of prison work with murderers tells them that Jeremy Bamber is not a murderer.

Bamber's follow inmates, many of them killers who know a murderer when they see one and who know Jeremy well do not believe that Jeremy Bamber is a murderer. One said, if Bamber's a killer he's a brilliant actor too - but  he ain't that good an actor.

Jeremy's friends who knew him before he was imprisoned say JB is soft as butter and is incapable of murder.

Forgive me for this, I don't wish to upset or offend anyone, but Hartley's belief that Jeremy could look his own, seriously injured, mother in the eyes as the poor woman desperately crawled across the floor in an attempt to escape, then shot her between the eyes - and all merely for money when Jeremy was about to inherit a large sum from his grandma just months hence - that is utter nonsense!

Jeremy Bamber does not have a murderer's profile. He does not have a violent impulse in him, let alone the psychotic instincts of a murderer.

I agree.  Good post.

[Chochokeira]

That's another argument I suppose.

You also have to remember that a .22 hollow round from a rimfire rifle, is not guaranteed to cause death.

I don't see the wounds to the children as the killer having gone crazy and excessively violent on them, quite the opposite, I see it as they were coldly and clinically murdered.

It can also be theorised that several of the shots could have come at a later stage, so for example the head shots to Neville and the additional head shots to the twins, the killer may have revisited that room to make sure after the other victims had been murdered.

THen why have their deaths been compellingly described as 'overkill', Hartley?

[Hartley]

THen why have their deaths been compellingly described as 'overkill', Hartley?

I have not suggested otherwise, yes very much overkill, whoever did it wanted them dead, that is indisputable.

[Newbury1]

That's another argument I suppose.

You also have to remember that a .22 hollow round from a rimfire rifle, is not guaranteed to cause death.

I don't see the wounds to the children as the killer having gone crazy and excessively violent on them, quite the opposite, I see it as they were coldly and clinically murdered.

It can also be theorised that several of the shots could have come at a later stage, so for example the head shots to Neville and the additional head shots to the twins, the killer may have revisited that room to make sure after the other victims had been murdered.

I feel the that the fragmented bullet (1st shot) in SC's throat was a .22 hollow round that was faulty and simply fragmented on firing or impact.

(The fragmented bullet - that old chestnut - could have been relplaced with a whole bullet as the cops may have lost all the bits (or parts) and had to replace it to make the number of rounds tally - who knows  )

I also believe the head shot's to the children were clinical and execution style. I hope this is not too graphic, but I imagine the rifle was placed near or against the head and then quickly pull the trigger x 5, move over to the other twin and the same x 3 (or vice versa). I believe nbg stated that a semi-auto can fire c. 3 rounds a second.

To me Nevills head shots are also execution style (the groups of 2) and June's between the eyes is almost a give away!  IMO

[Chochokeira]

I feel the that the fragmented bullet (1st shot) in SC's throat was a .22 hollow round that was faulty and simply fragmented on firing or impact.

(The fragmented bullet - that old chestnut - could have been relplaced with a whole bullet as the cops may have lost all the bits (or parts) and had to replace it to make the number of rounds tally - who knows  )

I also believe the head shot's to the children were clinical and execution style. I hope this is not too graphic, but I imagine the rifle was placed near or against the head and then quickly pull the trigger x 5, move over to the other twin and the same x 3 (or vice versa). I believe nbg stated that a semi-auto can fire c. 3 rounds a second.

Others have compellingly argued that those poor little boys were murdered with a frenzied arc of shots and in a manner which suggests overkill - the sort of overkill that parents who kill their children indulge in.

To me Nevills head shots are also execution style (the groups of 2) and June's between the eyes is almost a give away!  IMO

What you see a clinical execution, I see a botched, frenzied bloodbath.

[grahameb]

You have missed the point entirely I think Grahame.

Expert witnesses have given an opinion that the shooter was competent in the use of the firearm used. What is ludicrous is to completely ignore that, say the shooter was a novice, suggest that Jeremy was a 'crack shot', and then come to the conclusion that it must have been Sheila. Put that to the CCRC and it would be laughed back to you.

I seem to remember Ann saying that she wasn't aware that either Sheila or Jeremy could use firearms?

[Hartley]

I seem to remember Ann saying that she wasn't aware that either Sheila or Jeremy could use firearms?

Well we know that Jeremy could, by his own admission. Hence the going out to shoot rabbits and the target practice with Anthony Pargeter.

[Buddy]

That's another argument I suppose.

You also have to remember that a .22 hollow round from a rimfire rifle, is not guaranteed to cause death.

I don't see the wounds to the children as the killer having gone crazy and excessively violent on them, quite the opposite, I see it as they were coldly and clinically murdered.

It can also be theorised that several of the shots could have come at a later stage, so for example the head shots to Neville and the additional head shots to the twins, the killer may have revisited that room to make sure after the other victims had been murdered.

Hartley that is totat Boll*****.
A .22 hollow point or otherwise shot to the head is guarenteed to kill.
Where did you pull this gem from.
I suggest you keep away from area,s you know naff all about,
That was a stupid statement IMO.

[Hartley]

Hartley that is totat Boll*****.
A .22 hollow point or otherwise shot to the head is guarenteed to kill.
Where did you pull this gem from.
I suggest you keep away from area,s you know naff all about,
That was a stupid statement IMO.

I'll just leave that one there for you to look stupid Cliff.