Police received screaming and ranting responses from inside farmhouse

[vidvic]

Another issue surely, was the quality of the last appeal?

Apart from the first item which took a bit of thinking about, the defence were slaughtered.

It's one thing having a theory on a forum, it's quite another to have to back that up with evidence.

Many a journalist in 2002 questioned wether it should ever have made it that far.

I would imagine the CCRC are nervous of a similar outcome and the critisism they'd receive.

[Jackiepreece]

Hartley continually bleats on about his friends want to live in peace this will never happen unless Jeremy is freed on appeal or if all witheld evidence is released


I do not believe that anyone on this forum in the relatives position would not actively push for this to happen

If they are 100% convinced of JBs innocence then this would bring them peace

I do not believe they want everything witheld released

[Jackiepreece]

Vidvic

I bet I speak to more journalists than you do and all the ones I speak to believe this case should be referred

I suggest you read what Ngb said about the 2002 appeal

I could list numerous high profile cases that have been turned down at appeal then eventually the conviction is overturned so what you have stated is irrelevant we have moved on from 2002 now

[vidvic]

Actually Jackie, I have spoken to NGB at quite some length about 2002 and there's not much we disagree on. I was also there myself, everyday, so i have personal memory too.
Next time I'm at Skynews, i'll do a straw poll for you. Had any luck with Panorama? lol

[jon]

Actually Jackie, I have spoken to NGB at quite some length about 2002 and there's not much we disagree on. I was also there myself, everyday, so i have personal memory too.
Next time I'm at Skynews, i'll do a straw poll for you. Had any luck with Panorama? lol

Do you think next time you are with Mr Boutflour , you could ask him , how he mistook a sight for silencer , as Hartley claimed ? Did he tell EP ' pick up a silencer ' on the 11 Sept or not ?

[HMEssex]

I think the real issue is "reasonable doubt".

Unfortunately I think the trial was tainted by the mass of withheld evidence, and if the whole of the evidence we now have were presentedd there would have been a great probability of at least one more juror having reasonable doubt, therefore bringing a different outcome.
The appeals seem to follow the Denning position of protecting the majesty of the law, and seem massively unfair.
The only way justice will truely be served is a full retrial based on full disclosure. I have repeatedly said this - I wonder if you would think this is a fair position.

Hi bigpod,

I think that is a totally fair position.

I've said before that as JB was convicted on a 10-2 majority, it meant that some of the jury members were unsure, and some even wept at the verdict.

However, I don't know if a re-trial is the answer after 26 years.  Perhaps having his sentence quashed would be better.

[Jackiepreece]

Vic why do you have to act like a complete prick

i.e lol re panorama


I am just in the middle of putting a video together with up to date pictures of all the relatives

It might be ready tonight

Lol

The pictures are brilliant

[grahameb]

Vic why do you have to act like a complete prick

i.e lol re panorama


I am just in the middle of putting a video together with up to date pictures of all the relatives

It might be ready tonight

Lol

The pictures are brilliant

Erm...I think we ought to be careful with pictures Jackie. Most of us know what the older generation look like? But I'm wondering if you should keep the younger generation out of the video? They are completely innocent in all this and we are not sure about any guilt we attach to some of the others either?

[Jackiepreece]

Grahame I wouldn't put any younger members in the video

It's alright being cocky when someone knows so much information has been witheld but it's pointless keep bringing up the 2002 appeal because that has gone

Pointless arguments


The cockiness is not because they have the absolute proof jb is guilty it's because they believe witheld evidence will NEVER be released because of the costs and compensation if the conviction is overturned

Being cocky because you think the truth will never come out is not clever

[tyler]

What really bothers me concerning this case,is not just any evidence being witheld by the police,but the unfairness of Jeremys trial.The judge,in my opinion,seemed to a better summing up of the prosecutions case than the prosecutor himself! The judge put a lot of emphasis on the "alleged" use of a sound moderator.For example,the sound moderator MUST have been fitted to the rifle because it scored the mantlepiece.And it seems to me that the 10 members of the jury convicted Jeremy mainly on the grounds of it being highly unlikely that Sheila shot herself upstairs and then returned the sound moderator to the downstairs gun cupboard,and then returned upstairs to shoot herself again.I,myself find that highly unlikely,so can see why the jury came to the decision that they did.Since the trial,the sound moderator evidence has become questionable,and certainly the "scoring" on the mantlepiece has been deemed by an expert to have occured "after" the murders.Surely therefore,Jeremy did not receive a fair trial as on the "sound moderator" evidence alone the jury were misled?

[mike tesko]

What really bothers me concerning this case,is not just any evidence being witheld by the police,but the unfairness of Jeremys trial.The judge,in my opinion,seemed to a better summing up of the prosecutions case than the prosecutor himself! The judge put a lot of emphasis on the "alleged" use of a sound moderator.For example,the sound moderator MUST have been fitted to the rifle because it scored the mantlepiece.And it seems to me that the 10 members of the jury convicted Jeremy mainly on the grounds of it being highly unlikely that Sheila shot herself upstairs and then returned the sound moderator to the downstairs gun cupboard,and then returned upstairs to shoot herself again.I,myself find that highly unlikely,so can see why the jury came to the decision that they did.Since the trial,the sound moderator evidence has become questionable,and certainly the "scoring" on the mantlepiece has been deemed by an expert to have occured "after" the murders.Surely therefore,Jeremy did not receive a fair trial as on the "sound moderator" evidence alone the jury were misled?

I think the best way to answering your points is for me to post a letter that I received some time ago from Jeremy which covers the point about the scratch marks on the aga mantelpiece being made later, after the date when the shootings occurred - in fact we now know that those on the front face of the aga were actually made on 11th September because photographic proof exists which confirms this to be the case, at a time when DI Cook and PC Bird (SOC) were [present at the scene, carrying out their duties...

[HMEssex]

What really bothers me concerning this case,is not just any evidence being witheld by the police,but the unfairness of Jeremys trial.The judge,in my opinion,seemed to a better summing up of the prosecutions case than the prosecutor himself! The judge put a lot of emphasis on the "alleged" use of a sound moderator.For example,the sound moderator MUST have been fitted to the rifle because it scored the mantlepiece.And it seems to me that the 10 members of the jury convicted Jeremy mainly on the grounds of it being highly unlikely that Sheila shot herself upstairs and then returned the sound moderator to the downstairs gun cupboard,and then returned upstairs to shoot herself again.I,myself find that highly unlikely,so can see why the jury came to the decision that they did.Since the trial,the sound moderator evidence has become questionable,and certainly the "scoring" on the mantlepiece has been deemed by an expert to have occured "after" the murders.Surely therefore,Jeremy did not receive a fair trial as on the "sound moderator" evidence alone the jury were misled?

You're correct, Tyler.

From what I can recall, JB was convicted on three main points:  the silencer, Mugford's 'evidence', and the 'alledged' phone call from his father.

All circumstantial.

[grahameb]

What really bothers me concerning this case,is not just any evidence being witheld by the police,but the unfairness of Jeremys trial.The judge,in my opinion,seemed to a better summing up of the prosecutions case than the prosecutor himself! The judge put a lot of emphasis on the "alleged" use of a sound moderator.For example,the sound moderator MUST have been fitted to the rifle because it scored the mantlepiece.And it seems to me that the 10 members of the jury convicted Jeremy mainly on the grounds of it being highly unlikely that Sheila shot herself upstairs and then returned the sound moderator to the downstairs gun cupboard,and then returned upstairs to shoot herself again.I,myself find that highly unlikely,so can see why the jury came to the decision that they did.Since the trial,the sound moderator evidence has become questionable,and certainly the "scoring" on the mantlepiece has been deemed by an expert to have occured "after" the murders.Surely therefore,Jeremy did not receive a fair trial as on the "sound moderator" evidence alone the jury were misled?

Especially the FACT that no concrete evidence either put Jeremy at the scene. Not even forensic evidence. His place was searched. I read (whether true or not) that Jeremy had no marks or cuts or bruises on him at all. NOTHING at all that placed him at the scene of the crime. Yet the judge seemed to find all this illusional "evidence" to be proof of Jeremy's guilt? What a naive fellow he must have been? Still most of them don't live in the real world anyway.

[mike tesko]

Especially the FACT that no concrete evidence either put Jeremy at the scene. Not even forensic evidence. His place was searched. I read (whether true or not) that Jeremy had no marks or cuts or bruises on him at all. NOTHING at all that placed him at the scene of the crime. Yet the judge seemed to find all this illusional "evidence" to be proof of Jeremy's guilt? What a naive fellow he must have been? Still most of them don't live in the real world anyway.

"Illusional evidence" - I like that phrase...

[mike tesko]

Another letter from the past, about silencer matters, and what have you:-