Author Topic: How did the relatives know JB had not been seen moving between WHF and his home  (Read 12054 times)

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Offline smiffy

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How did they know no one would come forward with a sighting of JB travelling between WHF and his home on the night of the incident at the relevant times?
They clearly knew something as they went to the lengths of devising plausible ways in which they think JB could have travelled between WHF and his home unseen.

How were they so sure that no one was ever going to come forward and claim a sighting?

Obviously if JB was totally innocent and therefore no one was ever going to claim a sighting this would be a good explanation.
However , how could the relatives be so sure and so sure so early....as in august.
This would even go beyond what police may have been able to tell them at the time ..unless the police knew better as they knew the police killed Sheila.


So it looks like somewhere along the line in august the relatives knew JB to be innocent and they knew key truths about who really killed Sheila to be able to exclude JB from being seen moving between WHF and his home.

They either knew from good information that the police killed Sheila or that they themselves were implicated in the murders and thus gained the information from guilty knowledge.

Offline mike tesko

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How did they know no one would come forward with a sighting of JB travelling between WHF and his home on the night of the incident at the relevant times?
They clearly knew something as they went to the lengths of devising plausible ways in which they think JB could have travelled between WHF and his home unseen.

How were they so sure that no one was ever going to come forward and claim a sighting?

Obviously if JB was totally innocent and therefore no one was ever going to claim a sighting this would be a good explanation.
However , how could the relatives be so sure and so sure so early....as in august.
This would even go beyond what police may have been able to tell them at the time ..unless the police knew better as they knew the police killed Sheila.


So it looks like somewhere along the line in august the relatives knew JB to be innocent and they knew key truths about who really killed Sheila to be able to exclude JB from being seen moving between WHF and his home.

They either knew from good information that the police killed Sheila or that they themselves were implicated in the murders and thus gained the information from guilty knowledge.

Since, it becomes clear that relatives were receiving inside information from police officers about what took place and what was found upon entry into the farmhouse, it remains possible that relatives got wind of the fact that Sheila did not die, until after firearms officers had got into the building...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Aunt Agatha

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How did they know no one would come forward with a sighting of JB travelling between WHF and his home on the night of the incident at the relevant times?
They clearly knew something as they went to the lengths of devising plausible ways in which they think JB could have travelled between WHF and his home unseen.

How were they so sure that no one was ever going to come forward and claim a sighting?

Obviously if JB was totally innocent and therefore no one was ever going to claim a sighting this would be a good explanation.
However , how could the relatives be so sure and so sure so early....as in august.
This would even go beyond what police may have been able to tell them at the time ..unless the police knew better as they knew the police killed Sheila.


So it looks like somewhere along the line in august the relatives knew JB to be innocent and they knew key truths about who really killed Sheila to be able to exclude JB from being seen moving between WHF and his home.

They either knew from good information that the police killed Sheila or that they themselves were implicated in the murders and thus gained the information from guilty knowledge.




Good thinking Batman!

Offline nugnug

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and why looking for witneses who saw him going towards whf.

at the time he was supposed to have done it there must have been people driving down that way.

aand if he was on a biycle wearing a wetsuit i think there be some moterists who would have noticed him.

Offline tonyb

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  • Time to disembark the magical mystery tour...
How did they know no one would come forward with a sighting of JB travelling between WHF and his home on the night of the incident at the relevant times?
They clearly knew something as they went to the lengths of devising plausible ways in which they think JB could have travelled between WHF and his home unseen.

How were they so sure that no one was ever going to come forward and claim a sighting?

Obviously if JB was totally innocent and therefore no one was ever going to claim a sighting this would be a good explanation.
However , how could the relatives be so sure and so sure so early....as in august.
This would even go beyond what police may have been able to tell them at the time ..unless the police knew better as they knew the police killed Sheila.


So it looks like somewhere along the line in august the relatives knew JB to be innocent and they knew key truths about who really killed Sheila to be able to exclude JB from being seen moving between WHF and his home.

They either knew from good information that the police killed Sheila or that they themselves were implicated in the murders and thus gained the information from guilty knowledge.
Im sorry,I cant buy the police killed SC theory. SC killing herself whilst in the prescence of Police would be much more embarresing I would of thought and much more difficult to explain I would think.
Don't enjoy the cold weather.

Offline nugnug

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i dont ethere but smiffy does a good about the relatives knew this.

Offline ngb1066

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Im sorry,I cant buy the police killed SC theory. SC killing herself whilst in the prescence of Police would be much more embarresing I would of thought and much more difficult to explain I would think.

I believe something went wrong inside WHF after the police entered and whatever that was resulted in some form of cover up.  I suspect the police involved went along with that cover up as they saw little or no harm resulting from it.  As far as they were concerned it was an open and shut case of four murders and a suicide.  Having engaged in a cover up, when the nature of the investigation changed it was too difficult for the police officers involved to turn back.

What went wrong can only be the subject of guess work unless one of the police officers comes forward.  Possibly one of them has.  As I have said before I do not believe that a police officer shot Sheila with a police firearm.  However I am not able to rule out the possibility either of Sheila firing the second and fatal shot after the police had entered the house, or even of the second shot being fired accidentally as a police officer touched the rifle either to make it safe/remove it or to check Sheila for signs of life.  I accept that there is no direct evidence for either of these alternatives but either are are consisent with the known facts.

I also believe that at some stage Sheila was on the bed and that photographs were taken of her in that position.



« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 04:59:PM by ngb1066 »

Offline mike tesko

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I believe something went wrong inside WHF after the police entered and whatever that was resulted in some form of cover up.  I suspect the police involved went along with that cover up as they saw little or no harm resulting from it.  As far as they were concerned it was an open and shut case of four murders and a suicide.  Having engaged in a cover up, when the nature of the investigation changed it was too difficult for the police officers involved to turn back.

What went wrong can only be the subject of guess work unless one of the police officers comes forward.  Possibly one of them has.  As I have said before I do not believe that a police officer shot Sheila with a police firearm.  However I am not able to rule out the possibility either of Sheila firing the second and fatal shot after the police had entered the house, or even of the second shot being fired accidentally as a police officer touched the rifle either to make it safe/remove it or to check Sheila for signs of life.  I accept that there is no direct evidence for either of these alternatives but either are are consisent with the known facts.

I also believe that at some stage Sheila was on the bed and that photographs were taken of her in that position.

Your belief that the body of Sheila was on the bed at some stage is absolutely correct, and police for one reason or another moved her body to the floor...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline ngb1066

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Your belief that the body of Sheila was on the bed at some stage is absolutely correct, and police for one reason or another moved her body to the floor...

My theory on this Mike (and before anyone piles in I admit I do not have evidence to prove this) is that Sheila shot hereself lying on the bed.  The police moved her onto the floor, possibly to attempt resuscitation (i.e. on a hard surface).  Subsequently, possibly as part of the "informatives", they moved her back onto the bed. The photographs produced as part of the trial bundle only showed Sheila on the floor, which depicted the scene as the police had staged it.

 

Offline mike tesko

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My theory on this Mike (and before anyone piles in I admit I do not have evidence to prove this) is that Sheila shot hereself lying on the bed.  The police moved her onto the floor, possibly to attempt resuscitation (i.e. on a hard surface).  Subsequently, possibly as part of the "informatives", they moved her back onto the bed. The photographs produced as part of the trial bundle only showed Sheila on the floor, which depicted the scene as the police had staged it.

You are correct about Sheila's body being on the bed, and that it was subsequently moved to the floor, and that the only photographs produced as part of the case against Jeremy were some of those which were taken when Sheila's body was on the floor, not on the bed. It should also be said, that not all the photographs taken of Sheila's body on the floor were disclosed at the time of the trial, so the defence had no way of knowing the things we all now know...

It did not help matters, when a false photograhic record was produced by PC Bird (SOC), who produced the so called MASTER COPY ALBUM containing 223 pictures, whereas, there existed another top secret album containing 581 pictures which was known as THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM. If PC Bird had not contributed to this deception I think Jeremy's legal team would have been able to work it out back then at the trial in October 1986, that police had stage managed Sheila's body in the bedroom...

I think PC Bird got away with doing what he did because a large number of the other photographs which he did not include in hi8s MASTER COPY ALBUM (223) were taken by training officers involved in the stage managing of Sheila's body at the scene, involving Sheila's body being on the bed, and the fact that the second shot was not inflicted until after the police surgeon, Dr Craig, had confirmed Sheila to already be dead, by 8:44am...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline nugnug

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certainly an eye witness to bamber coming from or going to whf would have made much more convincing evidence than a jilted girlfriend.

so why were neather the realatives or the police trying to find one.

Offline mike tesko

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certainly an eye witness to bamber coming from or going to whf would have made much more convincing evidence than a jilted girlfriend.

so why were neather the realatives or the police trying to find one.

They did, but the information provided by the relatives was not confirmed to be true - a statement or a report exists about this in the file...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline grahameb

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They did, but the information provided by the relatives was not confirmed to be true - a statement or a report exists about this in the file...
What does it say Mike? To help out a lazy turd like me from looking it up.

Offline nugnug

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did the police appeal for witness themselves.

Offline mike tesko

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What does it say Mike? To help out a lazy turd like me from looking it up.

Relatives passed on information to the police that a lorry driver had seen Jeremy crouching in the side of the lane near to the farm, on evening of 6th August 1985...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...