David Bain

[David1819]

Robin wouldn't even allow two of his pupils to kill a spider in the classroom, and this was typical of the man who had grown up in the 1960s hippie culture of hugging one's children and having no inhibitions about nudity. The idea that he would ever interfere sexually with any of his children is preposterous: it was only after he has refused Margaret's continual pestering for sex that she turned against him, and as she said herself Laniet the fantasist was the child most like her. To suddenly favoritize David over his eldest daughter Arawa, who had blossomed into an ideal pupil and Head Girl, whilst nonentity David was languishing on the dole, is absurd. Yet the father loved his children and never cast aspersions against any of them. Stephen had had a premonition that David had been roaming the house with a gun only days before and had entered his bedroom threateningly, the bedrooms frighteningly as David was to tell Police upon arrival being "very unlockable". Arawa herself had probably experienced  the same incident as she begged for life that morning on her knees with hands clasped together, as David took aim and all were slain.  http://www.crime.co.nz/c-files.aspx?ID=90

Except that's not what happened. Robin waited for David to leave, minimizing the risk of being overpowered leaving only Stephen aged 14 being a possible obstacle. Once the killings were complete he waited for David to return, then decided it was not necessary did not want to live any longer, wrote the message on the computer then ended his own life.

[Steve_uk]

Except that's not what happened. Robin waited for David to leave, minimizing the risk of being overpowered leaving only Stephen aged 14 being a possible obstacle. Once the killings were complete he waited for David to return, then decided it was not necessary did not want to live any longer, wrote the message on the computer then ended his own life.

Don't be ridiculous. Robin Bain had a morning routine where he would bring in the newspaper(ironically not delivered by his son), put it on the hall table and go into the living room to pray. It was David who hid behind the alcove curtain and shot him as he was kneeling down. There was a minute speck of blood on Robin's fingernail which signifies he could only have been shot by an exterior force whilst in the praying position.  http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/forum/page-3264

[Steve_uk]

The following evidence had been suppressed at trial and I'm glad it has resurfaced for whatever reason.  http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news/sunday-june-14-unheard-evidence-2779563/video

[David1819]

Don't be ridiculous. Robin Bain had a morning routine where he would bring in the newspaper(ironically not delivered by his son), put it on the hall table and go into the living room to pray. It was David who hid behind the alcove curtain and shot him as he was kneeling down. There was a minute speck of blood on Robin's fingernail which signifies he could only have been shot by an exterior force whilst in the praying position.  http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/forum/page-3264

Robin did not die in a prayer position. He died standing up, with the rifle pressed against the side of his temple. Clip marks on his fingers.

This is were you reasoning goes out the window. You assume Robin as some peace loving hippie and Sheila as some harmless snowflake so they cannot possibly have done anything. despite you never even knowing these people in person.

[Steve_uk]

Robin did not die in a prayer position. He died standing up, with the rifle pressed against the side of his temple. Clip marks on his fingers.

This is were you reasoning goes out the window. You assume Robin as some peace loving hippie and Sheila as some harmless snowflake so they cannot possibly have done anything. despite you never even knowing these people in person.

But he was right handed and shot himself in the left temple? Why bother wearing opera gloves if he's going to kill himself anyway? My comments are based on the James MacNeish book, who did extensive research on the Bains right from their time in Papau New Guinea.

I wish the Bryan Bruce documentary had not been removed. Typical censorship when the judiciary have apparently made a mistake and we're all supposed to forget about the evidence and accept their decision meekly.

As for not knowing these people, how about getting to know the real David Bain as related in #77?

[David1819]

But he was right handed and shot himself in the left temple? Why bother wearing opera gloves if he's going to kill himself anyway? My comments are based on the James MacNeish book, who did extensive research on the Bains right from their time in Papau New Guinea.

I wish the Bryan Bruce documentary had not been removed. Typical censorship when the judiciary have apparently made a mistake and we're all supposed to forget about the evidence and accept their decision meekly.

As for not knowing these people, how about getting to know the real David Bain as related in #77?

What the family done in Papau New Guinea is not relevant.

See the images below.  Look at the trajectory of the bullet. Its entirely consistent with suicide. If you insist Robin was murdered then you have to at least concede it was no prayer position he was in at the time of his death.

Holding the gun with his right hand makes sense because he has to stabalize it for the awkward position needed.

[Steve_uk]

What the family done in Papau New Guinea is not relevant.

See the images below.  Look at the trajectory of the bullet. Its entirely consistent with suicide. If you insist Robin was murdered then you have to at least concede it was no prayer position he was in at the time of his death.

Holding the gun with his right hand makes sense because he has to stabalize it for the awkward position needed.

Mass murders don't come out of a vacuum. But leaving that aside here's one emergency worker's take on David Bain:  https://youtu.be/4_aTFbryP5E

Here's pathologist James Ferris' view.  https://youtu.be/eQtvjrbGf0A

Why did David Bain not testify in his own defence? All bullies are cowards.

[David1819]

Mass murders don't come out of a vacuum. But leaving that aside here's one emergency worker's take on David Bain:  https://youtu.be/4_aTFbryP5E

Here's pathologist James Ferris' view.  https://youtu.be/eQtvjrbGf0A

And the pathologist was demolished under cross examination.

Dr Alec Dempster, the pathologist:

He described the entry wound to Robin Bain as being 4mm in diameter surrounded by a ring of soot up to 10 mm in diameter.
"This indicates to me that this is a contact wound where the muzzle of the gun has been held in direct contact with the skin of the deceased."

Why did David Bain not testify in his own defence? All bullies are cowards.

By that analogy does that exclude Jeremy from being a bullying coward since he did testify in his own defence? To you it wont because either way you perceive everything that shows guilt thus the accused cannot win in your mind.

Does not testify = Bullying Coward
Does testify = Charming Psychopath   

[Steve_uk]

And the pathologist was demolished under cross examination.

Dr Alec Dempster, the pathologist:

He described the entry wound to Robin Bain as being 4mm in diameter surrounded by a ring of soot up to 10 mm in diameter.
"This indicates to me that this is a contact wound where the muzzle of the gun has been held in direct contact with the skin of the deceased."

By that analogy does that exclude Jeremy from being a bullying coward since he did testify in his own defence? To you it wont because either way you perceive everything that shows guilt thus the accused cannot win in your mind.

Does not testify = Bullying Coward
Does testify = Charming Psychopath

I said David Bain was hiding behind the alcove curtain, not that he necessarily shot his father from a distance. He would have the element of surprise. Once again the Defence is trying to turn the focus on the victim, when as we know in this case and the Bamber murders the accused was fully conversant with the mechanics of a gun.

Why use the silencer?

This is the Alex Dempster you quote and this is the conclusion of his evidence.   

https://youtu.be/PYttv7O6ir4

As for testifying and not testifying, the fools at Napley thought they could hoodwink the jury by Bamber's plummy voice and public school background, which backfired magnificently. David Bain had very little formal education and the much cannier Defence in his trial knew the jury would sense the nonentity he undoubtedly was and still is.

[Steve_uk]

A discussion of the two main books on the case by their respective authors, which doesn't bring us much further on, sadly. 

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/holmes-karam-and-mcneish-on-bain-1997/comments

[Steve_uk]

Of course to inherit both Jeremy Bamber and David Bain have to ensure all family members are gathered together in close proximity, which is why David collected his sister the day before her death.   https://youtu.be/9FhPWHIIK8s

[David1819]

A discussion of the two main books on the case by their respective authors, which doesn't bring us much further on, sadly. 

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/holmes-karam-and-mcneish-on-bain-1997/comments

I Sent this link to you a while back. its in three parts

[David1819]

Look at the position of Philip Boyce's legs knees and arms. Then compare it to Robin Bain

The Devil is in the details

[Steve_uk]

Look at the position of Philip Boyce's legs knees and arms. Then compare it to Robin Bain

The Devil is in the details

It's difficult to tell from that picture. I am not a ballistics expert, but why shoot yourself with a silencer, and what about the magazine which looks suspiciously as if David planted it to shore up the evidence, along with the typed suicide note of course. 
http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence/the-rifle-magazine-appeared-to-be-planted-next-to-robin-bains-body

[Samson]

I said David Bain was hiding behind the alcove curtain, not that he necessarily shot his father from a distance. He would have the element of surprise. Once again the Defence is trying to turn the focus on the victim, when as we know in this case and the Bamber murders the accused was fully conversant with the mechanics of a gun.

Why use the silencer?

This is the Alex Dempster you quote and this is the conclusion of his evidence.   

https://youtu.be/PYttv7O6ir4

As for testifying and not testifying, the fools at Napley thought they could hoodwink the jury by Bamber's plummy voice and public school background, which backfired magnificently. David Bain had very little formal education and the much cannier Defence in his trial knew the jury would sense the nonentity he undoubtedly was and still is.

Invoking the element of surprise has a fatal flaw, it makes it extremely difficult to line up for a suicide compatible trajectory.
Back to the drawing board old chap.
This was a real suicide alright, you really should examine trajectories, these solve Bamber, they solve Bain.