The Role of DCI "Terry" Gibbons, at the scene - 7th August 1985...

[lucy70]

OMG, Lucy. Thank goodness that someone is standing up to the condescending nut-job that is Smiffy.

Anyone who believes JB is guilty should probably just leave Smiffy to it - his "analysis" of the evidence  would cause even the most ardent pro-JB believer to think twice 

I know but is kinda fun asking him prove it with real evidence knowing that he doesn't have any ;-)

[simong]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

No they didn't.

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Police documents prove that police did have access to itemized bills, otherwise police documents are false...

I stand ready to be corrected then Mike. Are these documents posted on the forum?

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I am not being awkward or evasive, but until the CCRC makes its decision I cannot post the full itemized phone bills for the phone at whf or from Jeremy's cottage - however, I am prepared to post copies of police records which mention the existence of these, certainly...

documents currently being sourced and uploaded to server

These documents will prove that the Police were looking at itemised long distance phone bills which did exist in 1985. This was when police were looking at calls made to New Zealand. They will not prove that police had access to local itemised phone billing which Mike has claimed he has for WHF. Local itemised phone billing did not come into force until 1987.

[mike tesko]

One of the difficulties with this case, is that EP gathered all the evidence they needed to prove Sheila was guilty and responsible which they collected up as part of file SC/688/85. However, on 6th September 1985, the nature of the investigation changed, and the police created a new file, SC/786/85, into which they only put information and evidence that might suggest that Sheila was killed along with the other four victims, by Jeremy. Everything and anything which was part of the original file (SC/688/85) which remotely suggested that Sheila was guilty, was edited out of statements, and reports, before it became part of the new file (SC/786/85) - the original material in the format of the original file (SC/688/85) being withheld under pii rules...

Is it fair that although EP gathered all this evidence in the original file (SC/688/85) to prove that Sheila was guilty and that she did do it, is being withheld under pii rules?

[mike tesko]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

No they didn't.

-------------------

Police documents prove that police did have access to itemized bills, otherwise police documents are false...

I stand ready to be corrected then Mike. Are these documents posted on the forum?

-------------------

I am not being awkward or evasive, but until the CCRC makes its decision I cannot post the full itemized phone bills for the phone at whf or from Jeremy's cottage - however, I am prepared to post copies of police records which mention the existence of these, certainly...

documents currently being sourced and uploaded to server

These documents will prove that the Police were looking at itemised long distance phone bills which did exist in 1985. This was when police were looking at calls made to New Zealand. They will not prove that police had access to local itemised phone billing which Mike has claimed he has for WHF. Local itemised phone billing did not come into force until 1987.

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Such is the detail of these itemized billings that EP had as part of their investigation, it caused EP to suspect that JB had made the call from WHF to his cottage and that there might be evidence contained on his answer phone - which they subsequently seized and examined with a view to finding evidence to corroborate this view...

Why were Essex police so sure that a call had been made from whf to Jeremy's cottage during the early hours of the morning?

[mike tesko]

There is also the withheld evidence relating to the Sceptre 100 telephone, which was in use in the upstairs office at whf, which had a last ten numbers dialed facility...

EP would have got details of the last ten numbers dialed from that phone at whf...

[lucy70]

There is also the withheld evidence relating to the Sceptre 100 telephone, which was in use in the upstairs office at whf, which had a last ten numbers dialed facility...

EP would have got details of the last ten numbers dialed from that phone at whf...

Wasn't the upstairs office locked at the time?

[simong]

There is also the withheld evidence relating to the Sceptre 100 telephone, which was in use in the upstairs office at whf, which had a last ten numbers dialed facility...

EP would have got details of the last ten numbers dialed from that phone at whf...

The Sceptre was designed by BT and provided an LCD display, 10 number memory, clock, a call timer and last number re-dial. The clock was maintained by separate batteries. This version was manufactured by Denis Ferranti Meters Ltd., Bangor, Gwynedd (DFM) in 1984 (1/84)


Notice the 10 number memory not the last 10 calls made. It did have a last number re-dial however, link to this page http://www.cntr.salford.ac.uk/comms/pushbutton.php

[mike tesko]

There is also the withheld evidence relating to the Sceptre 100 telephone, which was in use in the upstairs office at whf, which had a last ten numbers dialed facility...

EP would have got details of the last ten numbers dialed from that phone at whf...

Wasn't the upstairs office locked at the time?

..............

There were two ways of gaining access to it in the upstairs office - the fact that the Sceptre 100 (upstairs) office phone had a last ten numbers dialed facility should not be overlooked by those who think that Bamber is guilty...

Lest look at this from another aspect / perspective, here are the last ten numbers to be dialed from the Sceptre phone that I am talking about:-

(1)   ********
(2)   ********
(3)   ********
(4)   ********
(5)   ********
(6)   ********
(7)   ********
(8)   ********
(9)   ********
(10) ********

Details of these last ten telephone numbers retrieved from the Sceptre 100 telephone in the upstairs office, constitute an itemized record, by which EP were able to establish that a call was made from whf to Jeremy's cottage during the early hours of the morning. Not only that but EP were able to say with a degree of certainty that the call only lasted a very short period of time, and that this was consistent with what Jeremy said about the call having been cut short...

As for Ralph's call to the police, after he called Jeremy - well, did Ralph use the digital Sceptre 100 phone in the upstairs office, or the round finger dial phone in the kitchen?

[simong]

The Sceptre was designed by BT and provided an LCD display, 10 number memory, clock, a call timer and last number re-dial. The clock was maintained by separate batteries. This version was manufactured by Denis Ferranti Meters Ltd., Bangor, Gwynedd (DFM) in 1984 (1/84)


Notice the 10 number memory not the last 10 calls made. It did have a last number re-dial however, link to this page http://www.cntr.salford.ac.uk/comms/pushbutton.php

[mike tesko]

The Sceptre was designed by BT and provided an LCD display, 10 number memory, clock, a call timer and last number re-dial. The clock was maintained by separate batteries. This version was manufactured by Denis Ferranti Meters Ltd., Bangor, Gwynedd (DFM) in 1984 (1/84)


Notice the 10 number memory not the last 10 calls made. It did have a last number re-dial however, link to this page http://www.cntr.salford.ac.uk/comms/pushbutton.php

----------------------------------

EP had the last 10 numbers dialed from that phone, including the details of the call made to Jeremy's cottage which only lasted a few seconds, by these means EP knew that a call had been made to Jeremy's cottage, and this was why they suspected the use of his answer phone, and why they seized it and examined it...

These are the facts...

[mike tesko]

There may have been different versions of the Sceptre 100, with additional facilities not mentioned in the link provided...

As timed moved on, improvements in the design features were added - it would depend when the Sceptre 100 telephone in use at the scene on 7th August 1985, was made, and purchased?

[mike tesko]

We now know where the information from the scene about the police finding "two dead bodies" upon entry came from - DCI "Terry" Gibbons...

Now what was one of the most senior Essex police detectives doing informing the incident room that two bodies had been found upon entry to the scene, one dead male and one dead female, and why was he requesting that the police surgeon and the coroners officer be notified about two Bodies, if only one had been found?

Why would one of the most senior detectives in Essex police, be providing the incident room with inaccurate information of this nature?

[simong]

Can you substantiate your claim that EP had the last 10 numbers dialled from that phone? The sceptre 100 phone had the ability to store 10 phone numbers that could be called by pressing #0 up to #9. It could redial the last number called. Are you suggesting that the Sceptre 100 phone had the hardware to be able to store the last 10 calls made?

[mike tesko]

Can you substantiate your claim that EP had the last 10 numbers dialled from that phone? The sceptre 100 phone had the ability to store 10 phone numbers that could be called by pressing #0 up to #9. It could redial the last number called. Are you suggesting that the Sceptre 100 phone had the hardware to be able to store the last 10 calls made?

-----------------

I am saying that EP got information about the last ten numbers dialed from the office phone and the last number on that list was the call that Ralph made to Jeremy, or the call that was made to Jeremy's cottage from whf that morning - the use of the round finger dial phone downstairs in the kitchen, which was used by DCI Harris to make contact with ACC Peter Simpson, between 8:15am and 8:30am, did not effect the redial facility of the Sceptre 100 phone upstairs, that is what I am saying...

[simong]

Sorry Mike, but i am saying the Sceptre 100 or any version of it did not have the technology to record the last 10 calls made. EP could not have possibly obtained the information you say they got from that phone or any version of the Sceptre 100.

There were two ways of gaining access to it in the upstairs office - the fact that the Sceptre 100 (upstairs) office phone had a last ten numbers dialed facility should not be overlooked by those who think that Bamber is guilty...

Lest look at this from another aspect / perspective, here are the last ten numbers to be dialed from the Sceptre phone that I am talking about:-

(1)   ********
(2)   ********
(3)   ********
(4)   ********
(5)   ********
(6)   ********
(7)   ********
(8)   ********
(9)   ********
(10) ********

Details of these last ten telephone numbers retrieved from the Sceptre 100 telephone in the upstairs office, constitute an itemized record, by which EP were able to establish that a call was made from whf to Jeremy's cottage during the early hours of the morning. Not only that but EP were able to say with a degree of certainty that the call only lasted a very short period of time, and that this was consistent with what Jeremy said about the call having been cut short...

As for Ralph's call to the police, after he called Jeremy - well, did Ralph use the digital Sceptre 100 phone in the upstairs office, or the round finger dial phone in the kitchen?

EP could not have established with any degree of certainty the call only lasted a very short period because this phone and versions of it did not have that capability. The sceptre 100 and versions of it could not establish a date let only a time of the last phonecall made.