could this have happened.

[nugnug]

could a 3rd party have got in the house killed all the family and got out again while jermy bamber and the police without any of them noticing seems unlikely on the face of it but is it impossible.

[ngb1066]

could a 3rd party have got in the house killed all the family and got out again while jermy bamber and the police without any of them noticing seems unlikely on the face of it but is it impossible.

It is not impossible but in my opinion it is highly unlikely. 

[Aunt Agatha]

This was a possibility.  There are eye witnesses who have stated they saw a man running across the fields, away from the house, on the said night.

Further people from the area have come forward to confirm this.

Also, we had the relative of a particular person come forward, whose grandfather died under suspicious circumstances - who used to work alongside Ralph.....and the remainder of that close group of colleagues all died under suspicious circumstances too.

So, was this a professional job?   My friend and I took this information seriously and made a trip to T.D'Arcy, however, our motives were misinterpreted and JB became aware of our plans and he adamantly refused to let us persue this.

I feel this was a mistake!

[ngb1066]

This was a possibility.  There are eye witnesses who have stated they saw a man running across the fields, away from the house, on the said night.

Further people from the area have come forward to confirm this.

Also, we had the relative of a particular person come forward, whose grandfather died under suspicious circumstances - who used to work alongside Ralph.....and the remainder of that close group of colleagues all died under suspicious circumstances too.

So, was this a professional job?   My friend and I took this information seriously and made a trip to T.D'Arcy, however, our motives were misinterpreted and JB became aware of our plans and he adamantly refused to let us persue this.

I feel this was a mistake!

If this was a massacre carried out by an unknown person there is a problem in explaining the telephone call Jeremy received from his father.  I suppose it is possible that Nevill was coerced into making this call in order to persuade Jeremy to go to WHF, presumably so that he could be killed as well.  I find this a difficult scenario to accept but I am interested to hear other views on it.

 

[nugnug]

perhaps heard shooting and just assumed it was sheila

or perhaps the phone call was genuine but sheila had calmed down by then.

or that wasn't really Nevile on the phone but someone impersonating him..

[ngb1066]

perhaps heard shooting and just assumed it was sheila

or perhaps the phone call was genuine but sheila had calmed down by then.

or that wasn't really Nevile on the phone but someone impersonating him..

The idea of somebody impersonating Nevill is an interesting one.  I will give that some further thought.  What would the motive be for murdering 5 or 6 members of a family?  It would have to be based upon something exceptionally serious.

 

[mertol22]

This was a possibility.  There are eye witnesses who have stated they saw a man running across the fields, away from the house, on the said night.

Further people from the area have come forward to confirm this.

Also, we had the relative of a particular person come forward, whose grandfather died under suspicious circumstances - who used to work alongside Ralph.....and the remainder of that close group of colleagues all died under suspicious circumstances too.

So, was this a professional job?   My friend and I took this information seriously and made a trip to T.D'Arcy, however, our motives were misinterpreted and JB became aware of our plans and he adamantly refused to let us persue this.

I feel this was a mistake!

Again this has come up , someone spotted running away, as ive mentioned before as many will know this is in Colin Caffells book In search of the Rainbows End, i remember starting a thread on this called Running Away,
where this is important why on earth did the police not give chase? were there no police dogs at WHF that night/early hours?

[Aunt Agatha]

This was a possibility.  There are eye witnesses who have stated they saw a man running across the fields, away from the house, on the said night.

Further people from the area have come forward to confirm this.

Also, we had the relative of a particular person come forward, whose grandfather died under suspicious circumstances - who used to work alongside Ralph.....and the remainder of that close group of colleagues all died under suspicious circumstances too.

So, was this a professional job?   My friend and I took this information seriously and made a trip to T.D'Arcy, however, our motives were misinterpreted and JB became aware of our plans and he adamantly refused to let us persue this.

I feel this was a mistake!

If this was a massacre carried out by an unknown person there is a problem in explaining the telephone call Jeremy received from his father.  I suppose it is possible that Nevill was coerced into making this call in order to persuade Jeremy to go to WHF, presumably so that he could be killed as well.  I find this a difficult scenario to accept but I am interested to hear other views on it.

 

The phone call:  Imagine it was a hit man....(NOT brought in by Jeremy).   There aim was to kill the whole family.....Ralph has been ordered to make a phone call to JB, to get him to the house.  However, the call that Ralph makes is not to Jb but the Police (the phone numbers are similar enough for Ralph to do this even if hitman is standing nearby.

Ralph tells  the Police that Sheila has gone mad etc.......hitman realises this is not a call to JB but Police.

Ralph now has to make the phone call to JB, with a gun to his neck (which would explain the marking's on Ralphs's neck)........

I'm not going to go into minute detail, but could this be an explanation for the phone call?

[TJB65]

This was a possibility.  There are eye witnesses who have stated they saw a man running across the fields, away from the house, on the said night.

Further people from the area have come forward to confirm this.

Also, we had the relative of a particular person come forward, whose grandfather died under suspicious circumstances - who used to work alongside Ralph.....and the remainder of that close group of colleagues all died under suspicious circumstances too.

So, was this a professional job?   My friend and I took this information seriously and made a trip to T.D'Arcy, however, our motives were misinterpreted and JB became aware of our plans and he adamantly refused to let us persue this.

I feel this was a mistake!

If this was a massacre carried out by an unknown person there is a problem in explaining the telephone call Jeremy received from his father.  I suppose it is possible that Nevill was coerced into making this call in order to persuade Jeremy to go to WHF, presumably so that he could be killed as well.  I find this a difficult scenario to accept but I am interested to hear other views on it.

 

The phone call:  Imagine it was a hit man....(NOT brought in by Jeremy).   There aim was to kill the whole family.....Ralph has been ordered to make a phone call to JB, to get him to the house.  However, the call that Ralph makes is not to Jb but the Police (the phone numbers are similar enough for Ralph to do this even if hitman is standing nearby.

Ralph tells  the Police that Sheila has gone mad etc.......hitman realises this is not a call to JB but Police.

Ralph now has to make the phone call to JB, with a gun to his neck (which would explain the marking's on Ralphs's neck)........

I'm not going to go into minute detail, but could this be an explanation for the phone call?

The only thing with this theory is, If someone was coercing Ralph into calling J to the farm, wouldn't the said person holding a gun to him get wind when Ralph called sheila ''my daughter'' listing the guns and then giving out the address for the farm?? The so called assailent in this scenario must have twigged that Ralph was not on the phone to Jeremy almost immediately?

[mertol22]

This was a possibility.  There are eye witnesses who have stated they saw a man running across the fields, away from the house, on the said night.

Further people from the area have come forward to confirm this.

Also, we had the relative of a particular person come forward, whose grandfather died under suspicious circumstances - who used to work alongside Ralph.....and the remainder of that close group of colleagues all died under suspicious circumstances too.

So, was this a professional job?   My friend and I took this information seriously and made a trip to T.D'Arcy, however, our motives were misinterpreted and JB became aware of our plans and he adamantly refused to let us persue this.

I feel this was a mistake!

If this was a massacre carried out by an unknown person there is a problem in explaining the telephone call Jeremy received from his father.  I suppose it is possible that Nevill was coerced into making this call in order to persuade Jeremy to go to WHF, presumably so that he could be killed as well.  I find this a difficult scenario to accept but I am interested to hear other views on it.

 

The phone call:  Imagine it was a hit man....(NOT brought in by Jeremy).   There aim was to kill the whole family.....Ralph has been ordered to make a phone call to JB, to get him to the house.  However, the call that Ralph makes is not to Jb but the Police (the phone numbers are similar enough for Ralph to do this even if hitman is standing nearby.

Ralph tells  the Police that Sheila has gone mad etc.......hitman realises this is not a call to JB but Police.

Ralph now has to make the phone call to JB, with a gun to his neck (which would explain the marking's on Ralphs's neck)........

I'm not going to go into minute detail, but could this be an explanation for the phone call?

There is nothing wrong with this version, Shona seems there was a hitman involved, my problem is Sheilas wounds upon storming WHF ?

[nugnug]

do we know if nevile dialed 999 or the police station number.

[Aunt Agatha]

do we know if nevile dialed 999 or the police station number.

He dialed the Police station number...not 999.  Which also raises the question why he did not dial 999.

Therefore, it does explain why he dialed the station direct.  A very brave man indeed!!

[Aunt Agatha]

This was a possibility.  There are eye witnesses who have stated they saw a man running across the fields, away from the house, on the said night.

Further people from the area have come forward to confirm this.

Also, we had the relative of a particular person come forward, whose grandfather died under suspicious circumstances - who used to work alongside Ralph.....and the remainder of that close group of colleagues all died under suspicious circumstances too.

So, was this a professional job?   My friend and I took this information seriously and made a trip to T.D'Arcy, however, our motives were misinterpreted and JB became aware of our plans and he adamantly refused to let us persue this.

I feel this was a mistake!

If this was a massacre carried out by an unknown person there is a problem in explaining the telephone call Jeremy received from his father.  I suppose it is possible that Nevill was coerced into making this call in order to persuade Jeremy to go to WHF, presumably so that he could be killed as well.  I find this a difficult scenario to accept but I am interested to hear other views on it.

 

The phone call:  Imagine it was a hit man....(NOT brought in by Jeremy).   There aim was to kill the whole family.....Ralph has been ordered to make a phone call to JB, to get him to the house.  However, the call that Ralph makes is not to Jb but the Police (the phone numbers are similar enough for Ralph to do this even if hitman is standing nearby.

Ralph tells  the Police that Sheila has gone mad etc.......hitman realises this is not a call to JB but Police.

Ralph now has to make the phone call to JB, with a gun to his neck (which would explain the marking's on Ralphs's neck)........

I'm not going to go into minute detail, but could this be an explanation for the phone call?

The only thing with this theory is, If someone was coercing Ralph into calling J to the farm, wouldn't the said person holding a gun to him get wind when Ralph called sheila ''my daughter'' listing the guns and then giving out the address for the farm?? The so called assailent in this scenario must have twigged that Ralph was not on the phone to Jeremy almost immediately?

Exactly!!  Pu yourself in Ralph's shoes....maybe the children have been shot already.....he more than likely assured himself he's going to die too.  Therefore, what does he have to lose?

Doing this, he will be aware there will be two outcomes - he is either shot immediately....which was possibly inevitable AND he at least spares Jeremy's life....OR....he will still be forced to make the call to Jeremy.....which is what happened.   

Ralph would have been given one hell of a beating for what he did............he would have been made to suffer for his bravery.......which explains the extent of Ralph's injuries.

[Aunt Agatha]

Imagine for a second if you will, that it was a hit man.  This was a professional job!

Some people already believe, or have a theory that Freemasons are involved.  Whatever, this call came from very high up.  Ralph WAS the main target - but incase anybody else within the family knew anything.....they all had to be assassinated.  No one must survive!!

Ralph makes the call to the police station.....whilst hit man has his back turned or is dealing with someone else in the house.....once this is done, he is then forced to make the call to get Jeremy, to get him over.

Now, if hitman knows R phoned Police.....why did he not run immediately?  He knew police would be on their way.

But, what if, hitman has been assured that Police or no-one will enter the house.....he will be given time to escape....in order that the JOB must be completed.

Question:  Who would have the Authority to tell the police to step back....or not enter the house?  Someone high up, is pulling all the strings here.....EP are just puppets - though they don't know it at the time.

If this were true, it would answer some unresolved questions as to why Police did not enter sooner etc.

Hitman escapes thru the back.....Police maybe have been told to stay front - concentrate on what's happening inside the house.  It would not be inconceivable for a deploy to have been set up, in the event of such a problem occurring.  Anyhow. hitman takes the back field and no-one is questioned further about it....not even when witnesses state they saw someone at the back of the house.  This line of inquiry is not pursued.  Why?

Then the problem of EP arises!  This was not supposed to happen either.  A quick cover up to protect EP also ensures that any orders given from 'up high' are never revealed by EP themselves.

Now they have a problem.  Jeremy!  What to do with him.  He's still alive.....AND, he may know why Ralph was killed.   Or, the 'persons' who set this whole thing up, only fear he may know...therefore, he MUST NOT be permitted to speak.   What is the solution?  Lock him up.....for life!  And when it's near his time for release.....lock him up permanently!!! 

If this where the case - then no matter what evidence one puts forward, they'll be someone 'up high' making absolutely certain this man is never released.....great lengths will be gone to to discredit any evidence put forward.

Does this sound extreme?  Unbelievable?

Well one only has to look at the case to see it's not straight forward.  It would also involve 'lots' of people deliberately lying etc....but what if, they were ordered to do this.....

I try to think and see beyond what is just in front of me.......if this was a pro job - it would answer many questions!

[Aunt Agatha]

This was a possibility.  There are eye witnesses who have stated they saw a man running across the fields, away from the house, on the said night.

Further people from the area have come forward to confirm this.

Also, we had the relative of a particular person come forward, whose grandfather died under suspicious circumstances - who used to work alongside Ralph.....and the remainder of that close group of colleagues all died under suspicious circumstances too.

So, was this a professional job?   My friend and I took this information seriously and made a trip to T.D'Arcy, however, our motives were misinterpreted and JB became aware of our plans and he adamantly refused to let us persue this.

I feel this was a mistake!

If this was a massacre carried out by an unknown person there is a problem in explaining the telephone call Jeremy received from his father.  I suppose it is possible that Nevill was coerced into making this call in order to persuade Jeremy to go to WHF, presumably so that he could be killed as well.  I find this a difficult scenario to accept but I am interested to hear other views on it.

 

The phone call:  Imagine it was a hit man....(NOT brought in by Jeremy).   There aim was to kill the whole family.....Ralph has been ordered to make a phone call to JB, to get him to the house.  However, the call that Ralph makes is not to Jb but the Police (the phone numbers are similar enough for Ralph to do this even if hitman is standing nearby.

Ralph tells  the Police that Sheila has gone mad etc.......hitman realises this is not a call to JB but Police.

Ralph now has to make the phone call to JB, with a gun to his neck (which would explain the marking's on Ralphs's neck)........

I'm not going to go into minute detail, but could this be an explanation for the phone call?

There is nothing wrong with this version, Shona seems there was a hitman involved, my problem is Sheilas wounds upon storming WHF ?

Sheila!  Put yourself in her shoes.  She has been diagnosed with a severe mental illness....and the worst kind.  She has spoken of killing her own children and has been sectioned for attempted suicide (I believe).

She now finds herself alive - in a house full of dead bodies.  The hitman has probably been made fully aware of his targets and their backgrounds.  If Sheila where left alive, no doubt she would be blamed for the murders....and it would be a good cover for the hitman as no matter how much she protested her innocence.......she would not have been believed!!   Sheila finding herself alone in the house, with all the Police outside, more than likely thought this too.

What are her options......life in prison!!

OR

She commits suicide and dies with her family.

Her first attempt fails....but once police have gained entry there is no more room for mistakes.....and this time she dies.

Again, if this where the case, many questions could be answered more straightforwardly.