Anglia News item

[grahameb]

Maybe you could ask Jeremy on one of his calls, why he had to leave New Zealand in such a hurry? It certainly was VERY urgent.

Vidvic, as you would expect under the circumstances, all manner of unfounded allegations have been made against Jeremy Bamber. Your proof of the above allegation is non existent as far as I can see.

It is published and I believe accepted by the defence team that it did happen. Maybe NGB could say if it is? Jeremy called his father in quite a state, pleading with him to wire him enough money as he had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. No one from the family knows why. I believe Jeremy visited singapore on his way back. Bit of a mystery

Forgive me, but I am trying to see the relevance of this going to New Zealand has to do with the murders?

[grahameb]

Maybe you could ask Jeremy on one of his calls, why he had to leave New Zealand in such a hurry? It certainly was VERY urgent.

Vidvic, as you would expect under the circumstances, all manner of unfounded allegations have been made against Jeremy Bamber. Your proof of the above allegation is non existent as far as I can see.

It is published and I believe accepted by the defence team that it did happen. Maybe NGB could say if it is? Jeremy called his father in quite a state, pleading with him to wire him enough money as he had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. No one from the family knows why. I believe Jeremy visited singapore on his way back. Bit of a mystery

I have read that Jeremy asked for money to be wired to him in order to return from New Zealand, and that he stayed in Singapore for a while on the way back.  Some of the family appeared to link this and his association with Brett Collins with the notion that Jeremy was gay, and they appear to have been rather obsessed with this idea.  To me the episode does not seem sinister at all, it is nothing more than often happens with a son or daughter at that age.  I have not spoken to Jeremy about this as it has never seemed important to me, but if I get the chance when he next calls I will try to remember to ask.  I doubt if it is really much of a mystery.

I'm just wondering why him being gay should cause distress to his father? I know that this was another age. I believe also that his father called him a nancy boy?

[chochokeira]

Maybe you could ask Jeremy on one of his calls, why he had to leave New Zealand in such a hurry? It certainly was VERY urgent.

Vidvic, as you would expect under the circumstances, all manner of unfounded allegations have been made against Jeremy Bamber. Your proof of the above allegation is non existent as far as I can see.

It is published and I believe accepted by the defence team that it did happen. Maybe NGB could say if it is? Jeremy called his father in quite a state, pleading with him to wire him enough money as he had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. No one from the family knows why. I believe Jeremy visited singapore on his way back. Bit of a mystery

I have read that Jeremy asked for money to be wired to him in order to return from New Zealand, and that he stayed in Singapore for a while on the way back.  Some of the family appeared to link this and his association with Brett Collins with the notion that Jeremy was gay, and they appear to have been rather obsessed with this idea.  To me the episode does not seem sinister at all, it is nothing more than often happens with a son or daughter at that age.  I have not spoken to Jeremy about this as it has never seemed important to me, but if I get the chance when he next calls I will try to remember to ask.  I doubt if it is really much of a mystery.

Excellent points, NGB +1. As you rightly state, this is nothing more than the experience of most parents of children of that age. Such requests for money are invariably matters of dire urgency too, though in my experience the real source of the urgency was more often than not a sudden need to visit the latest love of their life.

[Roch]

It is possible for the family to have truly, genuinely believed in Jeremy's guilt.  There is no known natural law of life that would prevent this genuine belief from running concurrently with / but ignorant of, a bungled police raid involving Sheila... and all the machinations that could stem from such an incident.

For me the weak link in the chain for the family / their supporters' stance...  is in relation to the withheld evidence issue.  For them, this issue seems to be the elephant in the room.  This does their stance no favours in respect of the rest of us evaluating the defence arguments re the silencer evidence.

To ignore the elephant in the room is a massively undermining factor, when considering the family's continued stance re their alleged genuine belief in Jeremy's guilt.

[jackiepreece]

Exactly Grahame what the hell has New Zealand got to do with a reason that we might think Jeremy is guilty of murdering 5 people?

Ridiculous

+ 1 Grahame, Ngb and Keira
+1 Rochford
The family should be campaigning for everything to be released under PII

They should having nothing to fear should they

[chochokeira]

Jackie,

He had so much respect for his Father that he reduced him to tears at Marks Tey Hotel, by pretending to be gay in front of Nevill's farmers union pals.

Perhaps Jeremy was gay, or bisexual, Vidvic, or going through a period where he thought he might be? It's been reported that Jeremy was subjected to a homosexual attack and abuse when he was a young lad at Gresham. If this is true, it could well have impacted on his sexuality.

If Jeremy was either Gay, bi or experimenting with the idea that he might be gay or bi, I doubt that Nevill or his fellow Essex farmers would have responded to that with much sensitivity, certainly initially, do you? I've read that Nevill referred to Jeremy as a 'Nancy boy', though I don't know if there is any truth in that.

What I'm suggesting is that if this alleged incident did occur, and that's a big 'if, the reason Nevill was upset may well have been quite the reverse of that alleged above. Jeremy may not have been pretending to be Gay at all, he may merely have been attempting to be himself.

Breaking news.....Vic sticks up for Jeremy.....

I don't buy into this Jeremy was gay = bad man 'vibe' that I've picked up on.

If Jeremy was/is gay/bi whatever, has absolutely no bearing on the case whatsoever.

I simply think he was a new romantic and so wore eyeliner etc, it was just the fashion.

What I meant here Keira was Jeremy being overtly 'camp' in a way that infuriated and humiliated his Father.

Excellent points regarding Jeremy being a New Romantic, he certainly had the looks and attitude for it.

As you rightly suggest, if Jeremy was Gay or bi - and I don't know whether he was or not - so what!

You can see from some of Jeremy's photographs that he was a bit of a poseur at times. Perhaps this was merely an expression of his New Romanticism?  I would think Nevill was out of touch with the youth culture of the period, he may simply have misinterpreted Jeremy's New Romantic posing as a camp display designed to upset him when it was nothing more than the natural and harmless self expressiveness of a fashionable young man?

Nevill was a child of the British Raj. A number of his male paternal ancestors were army officers in India who later became high ranking civil servants in the country. His father was born in India, in Bangalore if I remember correctly. Such a background may not easily lend itself to acceptance of the natural rebelliousness and fashions of young people.

[chochokeira]

Maybe you could ask Jeremy on one of his calls, why he had to leave New Zealand in such a hurry? It certainly was VERY urgent.

Vidvic, as you would expect under the circumstances, all manner of unfounded allegations have been made against Jeremy Bamber. Your proof of the above allegation is non existent as far as I can see.

It is published and I believe accepted by the defence team that it did happen. Maybe NGB could say if it is? Jeremy called his father in quite a state, pleading with him to wire him enough money as he had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. No one from the family knows why. I believe Jeremy visited singapore on his way back. Bit of a mystery

I have read that Jeremy asked for money to be wired to him in order to return from New Zealand, and that he stayed in Singapore for a while on the way back.  Some of the family appeared to link this and his association with Brett Collins with the notion that Jeremy was gay, and they appear to have been rather obsessed with this idea.  To me the episode does not seem sinister at all, it is nothing more than often happens with a son or daughter at that age.  I have not spoken to Jeremy about this as it has never seemed important to me, but if I get the chance when he next calls I will try to remember to ask.  I doubt if it is really much of a mystery.

I'm just wondering why him being gay should cause distress to his father? I know that this was another age. I believe also that his father called him a nancy boy?

I think Gays and New Romanticism were a world away from the sort of (over?) disciplined life style with which Nevill would have felt comfortable, Grahame. As I've said in another post, Nevill was a child of the British Raj.

[mertol22]

no different to the shock and awe of the seventies, What was in Jeremys music collection, his car cassette player if it worked, bet he had culture club records somewhere, boy george piled the make up on , Jeremy saw the 1980s as it was meant to be , cars , money, women, booze, having fun, is any of this  not normal ?.

[chochokeira]

It is possible for the family to have truly, genuinely believed in Jeremy's guilt.  There is no known natural law of life that would prevent this genuine belief from running concurrently with / but ignorant of, a bungled police raid involving Sheila... and all the machinations that could stem from such an incident.

For me the weak link in the chain for the family / their supporters' stance...  is in relation to the withheld evidence issue.  For them, this issue seems to be the elephant in the room.  This does their stance no favours in respect of the rest of us evaluating the defence arguments re the silencer evidence.

To ignore the elephant in the room is a massively undermining factor, when considering the family's continued stance re their alleged genuine belief in Jeremy's guilt.

Excellent points, Rocky +1

[vidvic]

Exactly Grahame what the hell has New Zealand got to do with a reason that we might think Jeremy is guilty of murdering 5 people?

Ridiculous

+ 1 Grahame, Ngb and Keira
+1 Rochford
The family should be campaigning for everything to be released under PII

They should having nothing to fear should they

I don't believe it to be ridiculous Jackie. For example, if he had to get out because of something he'd done wrong, then that would be another example of bad character.

[vidvic]

It is possible for the family to have truly, genuinely believed in Jeremy's guilt.  There is no known natural law of life that would prevent this genuine belief from running concurrently with / but ignorant of, a bungled police raid involving Sheila... and all the machinations that could stem from such an incident.

For me the weak link in the chain for the family / their supporters' stance...  is in relation to the withheld evidence issue.  For them, this issue seems to be the elephant in the room.  This does their stance no favours in respect of the rest of us evaluating the defence arguments re the silencer evidence.

To ignore the elephant in the room is a massively undermining factor, when considering the family's continued stance re their alleged genuine belief in Jeremy's guilt.

May I ask what evidence the family have witheld?

[chochokeira]

Exactly Grahame what the hell has New Zealand got to do with a reason that we might think Jeremy is guilty of murdering 5 people?

Ridiculous

+ 1 Grahame, Ngb and Keira
+1 Rochford
The family should be campaigning for everything to be released under PII

They should having nothing to fear should they

I don't believe it to be ridiculous Jackie. For example, if he had to get out because of something he'd done wrong, then that would be another example of bad character.

That depends on what it was that he'd done wrong. You haven't answered my question, Vidvic, were you a perfect angel when you were in your early 20s? I have a number of skeletons in my cupboard, relics of my mispent youth, things I would prefer to forget about. My guess is that you do too. Come on, Vic, own up!

[jon]

Exactly Grahame what the hell has New Zealand got to do with a reason that we might think Jeremy is guilty of murdering 5 people?

Ridiculous

+ 1 Grahame, Ngb and Keira
+1 Rochford
The family should be campaigning for everything to be released under PII

They should having nothing to fear should they

I don't believe it to be ridiculous Jackie. For example, if he had to get out because of something he'd done wrong, then that would be another example of bad character.

Does being a bad character , make you a child killer ?

[Roch]

It is possible for the family to have truly, genuinely believed in Jeremy's guilt.  There is no known natural law of life that would prevent this genuine belief from running concurrently with / but ignorant of, a bungled police raid involving Sheila... and all the machinations that could stem from such an incident.

For me the weak link in the chain for the family / their supporters' stance...  is in relation to the withheld evidence issue.  For them, this issue seems to be the elephant in the room.  This does their stance no favours in respect of the rest of us evaluating the defence arguments re the silencer evidence.

To ignore the elephant in the room is a massively undermining factor, when considering the family's continued stance re their alleged genuine belief in Jeremy's guilt.

May I ask what evidence the family have witheld?

Vic, I meant the issue of withheld evidence is widely accepted as being a major aspect of this case.  To fail to acknowledge the importance of this doesn't assist pro family arguments, imo.   

[chochokeira]

Exactly Grahame what the hell has New Zealand got to do with a reason that we might think Jeremy is guilty of murdering 5 people?

Ridiculous

+ 1 Grahame, Ngb and Keira
+1 Rochford
The family should be campaigning for everything to be released under PII

They should having nothing to fear should they

I don't believe it to be ridiculous Jackie. For example, if he had to get out because of something he'd done wrong, then that would be another example of bad character.

I don't accept that the transgressions of our youth are indicative of bad character. Very many people who were absolute horrors when young become stable persons of good character once they mature. There are indications too that Jeremy had matured by the time of the tragedy at WHF.