Anglia News item

[chochokeira]

You constantly make the point that the family inherited. I would counter that with the fact that the boutflours, the speakmans and by marriage, the Eatons, were already extremely wealthy. I don't believe there is a financial motive for them to frame Jeremy.

That claim does not reconcile with the loans from Nevill.

[ngb1066]

Jackie,

Firstly, it was yourself that made the point that I didn't know the family in 1985/86. The point I am making is that you didn't know Jeremy either in 1985. I don't see how that makes things I post any less valid. As I have said before, Jeremy tells you things, the family tells me things. How are we any different from each other? You defend your friend, I defend my friends.

You constantly make the point that the family inherited. I would counter that with the fact that the boutflours, the speakmans and by marriage, the Eatons, were already extremely wealthy. I don't believe there is a financial motive for them to frame Jeremy.

There is no doubt in my mind that Julie Mugford was far from an angel. But nor was Jeremy either. They were both as bad as each other. Jeremy instigated the caravan park robbery, Julie her cheque fraud. The family hold no great love for Julie either. They firmly believe she could and should have saved their family. She lied to Ann after the identification of the bodies and I firmly believe that if Jeremy hadn't have dumped her, he would not be where he is now.

Maybe you could ask Jeremy on one of his calls, why he had to leave New Zealand in such a hurry? It certainly was VERY urgent. You might recall Jackie, that Jeremy's love of farming and his Father was such that he went to New Zealand, with no notice, right in the middle of harvest, causing a huge row with Nevill. He had so much respect for his Father that he reduced him to tears at Marks Tey Hotel, by pretending to be gay in front of Nevill's farmers union pals.

I do not speak to Ann daily nor do I post from her viewpoint. In fact I was quite nervous telling her about this forum as I didn't want to be disrespectful to her or the family, but on reading some of the posts felt that I wanted to defend.

I read everything that's posted, I've read the books, I have all the same information as you do.

The family members you speak of bear no resemblance to the people I know. People speak of Jeremy's believable nature and I would definitely say the same of the family. If they tell me something I have no reason to disbelieve them and nothing they have told me has ever been disproved on this forum. Again, we have the same point of reference. Believable friends.

I firmly believe that Jeremy Bamber is where he belongs.

The phone call didn't happen. Jeremy has changed his timings, several witnesses say he called Julie around 3am, and he didn't call 999. Only last year he changed his timings again. He couldn't even remember if he called Julie before or after the Police. If Jeremy gets confused it's put down to grief. If the family's evidence is called into question, then it's deception.

I would love to see the interviews with the police. Why have they not been posted? I understand from what I've read that they are not very favourable to his cause. I'm sure that's why we haven't seen them.

A rifle is left out with a loaded magazine, with the sights and silencer removed that is usualy used with them. It is then used by a woman who no living person, even Jeremy, has ever seen pick one up, let alone know how to use it and without missing a shot, kills her own family? That woman pictured on this forum killed her own family and then shot herself twice or was killed by the police after playing dead in the kitchen? Even though the open phone line detected no movement or sound except the plainly terrified dog.

We are now told that Jeremy saw a person in the window of the house and that proves it wasn't him, yet it took Mike Tesko, a year after he was convicted, to point out to Jeremy the significance of this sighting.

Incidently, with his daughter holding a loaded rifle, in the middle of a massive psycotic episode, Nevill calls Jeremy, not the police, nor hits the panic alarm, and all of this without waking the boys.

After the murders Jeremy behaves, out of grief, like no other grieving relative I've ever heard. Amsterdam, South of France, it's all a matter of record. The cash spend from the farm coffers was swift and excessive. Old family money is not in the safe, it's in valuable possessions, Sotherby's were called, his dealings with Colin and the boy's things. 2 journalists went on record and were interviewed on TV, saying that Jeremy even tried to sell pictures of Sheila in the pub at Goldhanger.
Grief is a funny thing.....

Jackie, I don't need Ann to tell me that Jeremy did it. I believe that all the evidence you need is right there in front of you.

Vic  -  thank you for this post.  You have made several points in a clear manner and I am pleased that you have responded in a positive way to my attempt to get the forum back on a constructive footing.  I believe that those us us who have a different view need to address your points individually and clearly.  I will make an attempt at this in a further post but I want to give it some consideration first in order to do justice to it.

What any of us have to do, in the same way that a jury has to do in deciding upon their verdict, is to decide the weight we attach to each individual piece of evidence.  It is possible to list factors which support the conclusion that it is unlikely that Jeremy Bamber was guilty of the murders.  I accept that there are some parts of the evidence in the case which do not help the defence. My own view is that there are more compelling parts of the evidence which support the defence. Overall, I have been persuaded that the evidence is more consistent with Jeremy Bamber being not guilty rather than guilty.  However, the reason I actively support Jeremy Bamber's campaign is that I believe that his trial was deeply flawed.  Justice was not done.  Evidence was concealed or falsified. I believe that even those who believe that Jeremy Bamber committed the murders should support the release of all withheld evidence and the referral of the case to the Court of Appeal.  In my view the interests of justice demand that.

I will respond to the individual points you have made in a separate post.

 

[chochokeira]

Maybe you could ask Jeremy on one of his calls, why he had to leave New Zealand in such a hurry? It certainly was VERY urgent.

Vidvic, as you would expect under the circumstances, all manner of unfounded allegations have been made against Jeremy Bamber. Your proof of the above allegation is non existent as far as I can see.

[jackiepreece]

Vidvic

I will go through your points one by one later in detail but I would like to point out that during many phone calls and letters he has told me numerous things about what happened between families but I have not posted most of the stuff because although it's really bad I have no proof of it.

What I think is very important is you have made the point about Jeremys behaviour after the murders exactly can be said about the relatives behaviour.
Where was their grief
Where was the grief of the police officers horsing about after seeing 2 dead children and 3 dead adults

One of the cruelest things I have ever read is Jeremy being treated as the cuckoo in the nest
Plain wicked
Anne Eaton saying she thinks there was no pictures of Jeremy in his grandmothers bedroom

Ann Eaton didn't know this so why say this

I have made my mind up on what I think of these people

The hatred of Jeremy is abnormal he was just a normal 24 year old boy from what I have read

[chochokeira]

Jackie,

Firstly, it was yourself that made the point that I didn't know the family in 1985/86. The point I am making is that you didn't know Jeremy either in 1985. I don't see how that makes things I post any less valid. As I have said before, Jeremy tells you things, the family tells me things. How are we any different from each other? You defend your friend, I defend my friends.

Well said, Vidvic, good point +1

[chochokeira]

Jackie,

There is no doubt in my mind that Julie Mugford was far from an angel. But nor was Jeremy either. They were both as bad as each other. Jeremy instigated the caravan park robbery, Julie her cheque fraud. The family hold no great love for Julie either. They firmly believe she could and should have saved their family. She lied to Ann after the identification of the bodies and I firmly believe that if Jeremy hadn't have dumped her, he would not be where he is now.

Excellent points. Were you an angel in your early twenties? I behaved appallingly at around that age, until I quickly changed my ways.

[jackiepreece]

Keira a little monster and my teachers hated me because I was always off school but got top marks in exams.

I was never at home I was alway with my horse we would just go off for hours and I ran away at 16 my mum and dad used to tear their hair out and I am sure my mum must have been in tears numerous times

Probably far worse than jb

[vidvic]

You constantly make the point that the family inherited. I would counter that with the fact that the boutflours, the speakmans and by marriage, the Eatons, were already extremely wealthy. I don't believe there is a financial motive for them to frame Jeremy.

That claim does not reconcile with the loans from Nevill.

Hi Keira,

Loans, Loan or business deal?

You seem to be saying there were multiple loans?

I'm aware that Nevill bought some of Peter Eaton's brother's land to prevent it being developed but am not aware this placed the Eaton's into financial crisis.

[guest7363]

You constantly make the point that the family inherited. I would counter that with the fact that the boutflours, the speakmans and by marriage, the Eatons, were already extremely wealthy. I don't believe there is a financial motive for them to frame Jeremy                                 MAY i say what a good post from vidic, the only thing i would say  with jeremy out the way they would have become even more extremely wealthy.But i must also say i too have met the family on numerous occasions  and did not find anything wrong with them, the only thing i used to think was how different would it have been with jeremy representing with them.

[ngb1066]

Vidvic

I will go through your points one by one later in detail but I would like to point out that during many phone calls and letters he has told me numerous things about what happened between families but I have not posted most of the stuff because although it's really bad I have no proof of it.

What I think is very important is you have made the point about Jeremys behaviour after the murders exactly can be said about the relatives behaviour.
Where was their grief
Where was the grief of the police officers horsing about after seeing 2 dead children and 3 dead adults

One of the cruelest things I have ever read is Jeremy being treated as the cuckoo in the nest
Plain wicked
Anne Eaton saying she thinks there was no pictures of Jeremy in his grandmothers bedroom

Ann Eaton didn't know this so why say this

I have made my mind up on what I think of these people

The hatred of Jeremy is abnormal he was just a normal 24 year old boy from what I have read

Jackie - good post.  I agree with the points you make.

[vidvic]

Maybe you could ask Jeremy on one of his calls, why he had to leave New Zealand in such a hurry? It certainly was VERY urgent.

Vidvic, as you would expect under the circumstances, all manner of unfounded allegations have been made against Jeremy Bamber. Your proof of the above allegation is non existent as far as I can see.

It is published and I believe accepted by the defence team that it did happen. Maybe NGB could say if it is? Jeremy called his father in quite a state, pleading with him to wire him enough money as he had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. No one from the family knows why. I believe Jeremy visited singapore on his way back. Bit of a mystery

[chochokeira]

Jackie,

He had so much respect for his Father that he reduced him to tears at Marks Tey Hotel, by pretending to be gay in front of Nevill's farmers union pals.

Perhaps Jeremy was gay, or bisexual, Vidvic, or going through a period where he thought he might be? It's been reported that Jeremy was subjected to a homosexual attack and abuse when he was a young lad at Gresham. If this is true, it could well have impacted on his sexuality.

If Jeremy was either Gay, bi or experimenting with the idea that he might be gay or bi, I doubt that Nevill or his fellow Essex farmers would have responded to that with much sensitivity, certainly initially, do you? I've read that Nevill referred to Jeremy as a 'Nancy boy', though I don't know if there is any truth in that.

What I'm suggesting is that if this alleged incident did occur, and that's a big 'if, the reason Nevill was upset may well have been quite the reverse of that alleged above. Jeremy may not have been pretending to be Gay at all, he may merely have been attempting to be himself.

[chochokeira]

Vidvic

I will go through your points one by one later in detail but I would like to point out that during many phone calls and letters he has told me numerous things about what happened between families but I have not posted most of the stuff because although it's really bad I have no proof of it.

What I think is very important is you have made the point about Jeremys behaviour after the murders exactly can be said about the relatives behaviour.
Where was their grief
Where was the grief of the police officers horsing about after seeing 2 dead children and 3 dead adults

One of the cruelest things I have ever read is Jeremy being treated as the cuckoo in the nest
Plain wicked
Anne Eaton saying she thinks there was no pictures of Jeremy in his grandmothers bedroom

Ann Eaton didn't know this so why say this

I have made my mind up on what I think of these people

The hatred of Jeremy is abnormal he was just a normal 24 year old boy from what I have read

Some excellent points here, Jackie + 1

[ngb1066]

Maybe you could ask Jeremy on one of his calls, why he had to leave New Zealand in such a hurry? It certainly was VERY urgent.

Vidvic, as you would expect under the circumstances, all manner of unfounded allegations have been made against Jeremy Bamber. Your proof of the above allegation is non existent as far as I can see.

It is published and I believe accepted by the defence team that it did happen. Maybe NGB could say if it is? Jeremy called his father in quite a state, pleading with him to wire him enough money as he had to leave New Zealand in a hurry. No one from the family knows why. I believe Jeremy visited singapore on his way back. Bit of a mystery

I have read that Jeremy asked for money to be wired to him in order to return from New Zealand, and that he stayed in Singapore for a while on the way back.  Some of the family appeared to link this and his association with Brett Collins with the notion that Jeremy was gay, and they appear to have been rather obsessed with this idea.  To me the episode does not seem sinister at all, it is nothing more than often happens with a son or daughter at that age.  I have not spoken to Jeremy about this as it has never seemed important to me, but if I get the chance when he next calls I will try to remember to ask.  I doubt if it is really much of a mystery.

 

[vidvic]

Jackie,

He had so much respect for his Father that he reduced him to tears at Marks Tey Hotel, by pretending to be gay in front of Nevill's farmers union pals.

Perhaps Jeremy was gay, or bisexual, Vidvic, or going through a period where he thought he might be? It's been reported that Jeremy was subjected to a homosexual attack and abuse when he was a young lad at Gresham. If this is true, it could well have impacted on his sexuality.

If Jeremy was either Gay, bi or experimenting with the idea that he might be gay or bi, I doubt that Nevill or his fellow Essex farmers would have responded to that with much sensitivity, certainly initially, do you? I've read that Nevill referred to Jeremy as a 'Nancy boy', though I don't know if there is any truth in that.

What I'm suggesting is that if this alleged incident did occur, and that's a big 'if, the reason Nevill was upset may well have been quite the reverse of that alleged above. Jeremy may not have been pretending to be Gay at all, he may merely have been attempting to be himself.

Breaking news.....Vic sticks up for Jeremy.....

I don't buy into this Jeremy was gay = bad man 'vibe' that I've picked up on.

If Jeremy was/is gay/bi whatever, has absolutely no bearing on the case whatsoever.

I simply think he was a new romantic and so wore eyeliner etc, it was just the fashion.

What I meant here Keira was Jeremy being overtly 'camp' in a way that infuriated and humiliated his Father.