Author Topic: you should all know this?  (Read 284274 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1815 on: December 10, 2011, 01:27:AM »
Mertol you are detracting from the point. If I had killed my family including two of my own children, I would not lie on the bedroom floor to blow my brains out. I would lie on the bed to do it!

Hartley

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1816 on: December 10, 2011, 01:29:AM »
In your opinion, who someone was staging another's suicide, and having no prior knowledge,would they place a body on the bed or on the floor?
Something went badly wrong im sure at the point the firearms team stormed the rear of the farm on around or on 07.30 that morning, im puzzled why they did not use both doorsfront and rear.

Maybe there is not enough cover on approach to the front door.

Offline Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1817 on: December 10, 2011, 01:39:AM »
Hartley do not be so ridiculous. The police had from approximately 5am to plan how to enter that house. Now I know it was the 80's but any mistakes on entering WHF were entirely those of Essex Police and beyond the control of JB. Surely if they believe it to be a hostage/siege situation every exit would have been covered. And that is what according to JB was happening. The police at that point had no reason to believe differently. 

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1818 on: December 10, 2011, 02:10:AM »
I think it's 6 and two 3's.

So if a suicide was staged, the bed is best.
If a suicide occurred, the bed is best.
If the police moved and staged her body, again the bed is best.

Yet she is on the floor.

I think you could tie yourself in knots with this and not come to any particularly logical conclusion.

 

That depends on your point of view, if I found myself in a situation where suicide was the only way out, I wouldn't have done it on the bed.

Offline Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1819 on: December 10, 2011, 02:43:AM »
Exactly the point I was making on another thread. I f I was going to kill my family and then myself, I would lay on a bed to blow my brains out, I would not lay on the floor to do it. And if my brother was killing the family and then me, how would he know whether to put me on the bed or on the floor?

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1820 on: December 10, 2011, 06:43:AM »
The picture of Sheila on the bed is real, Ewen Smith knows its real, and he is now a CCRC Commissioner. Ewen Smith was told by Dr Craig, that the contents of his statement which refers to Sheila's body being on the floor when he arrived at the scene, was a false statement, and that Sheila was not dead until after police went into the farmhouse. Ewen told me personally that although this information had been conveyed to him by Dr Craig, in the presence of Dr Craigs wife, Ewen told me that he did not think Dr Craig was well enough or strong enough to attend an appeal hearing and be subjected to cross examination, because he was really poorly, and Ewen said that Dr Craig was a lovely old gentlemen who did not deserve to be put through such an ordeal...

Apparently, Dr Craigs wife was present when Dr Craig told Ewen all about his evidence and the false statements he had made...

Now...

in so far as does the photograph of Sheila on the bed exist, yes it does, it was sent to Ewen by Essex police along with all the other previously undisclosed pictures which formed part of the senior investigating officers album that had been kept in ACC Peter Simpsons safe in his office at DHQ, and the police only let Ewen see these on the proviso that he did not copy any of them or show them to anybody else...

The photograph of Sheila on the bed was amongst this disclosed album, and I saw it when I visited Ewen's office in Birmingham. Sheila was on the bed, somebody had raised the hem of her nightdress to expose her crotch area, she was not wearing any shoes or slippers, there was no gun on the body, there was no body bag on the bed, there were no runs of blood from the corners of her mouth, she was on the bed before she was later photographed on the bedroom floor. There was no bible on her body or the bed, she was laid on her back, and there was no bloodied fingermarks on the front lower part of her nightdress...

Police moved her body from the bed to the floor, and then made up a story about finding her body there on the floor with the gun and bible in attendance...

If the missing negatives had not been cut from its strip (8 of them in sequence) one of the missing negatives would show Sheila's body on the bed as I have described, along with the other image I have recently been shown, which also showed Sheila on the bed with only one wound to her throat/neck...

Why have the police cut out this sequence of negatives?

Why did they create a senior investigating officers album which contained 581 pictures, yet only tell the defence team that there existed 223 photographs in a so called master copy album? Why hide the existence of 358 pictures from the defence?

Worse still...

Why did PC Bird (SOC) only produce a schedule showing which of the (223) master copy album photographs, related to the (50) court album photographs? Why was no schedule produced to show all 581 pictures taken in sequence, against the order of 223 pictures taken from it in producing the so called master copy album, as well as the (50)court album?

Answer...

The photographs of Sheila on the bed, were taken at a time when she was still alive on the bed, she could not have been dead, hence she only had one shot to her neck by that stage. Sheila may have been assumed to be dead, but she was not...

Dr Craig made an error in pronouncing her as being dead at the scene without examining her to check for vital signs of life...

Ambulance crews in attendance at the scene, were not called forward into the farmhouse to check the bodies for signs of life, but were sent away from the scene, despite Sheila still being alive on the bed in the bedroom with her only having been shot once by that stage...

Police stage managed Sheila' body on the floor in a position parallel with the edge of the bed, and they repositioned the rifle on her body and re-arranged her hands upon and around the gun, and placed the bible close by - not Jeremy, or any would be as yet unidentified killer...
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 06:45:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1821 on: December 10, 2011, 06:48:AM »
Some newspaper accounts at the time of the shootings, reported that Sheila's body had been found on the bed...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1822 on: December 10, 2011, 06:49:AM »
Ann Eaton, was told by a police officer, on the morning of the shootings, that Sheila's body had been found on the bed...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1823 on: December 10, 2011, 06:51:AM »
Police took photographs of Sheila's body on the bed (and have since removed 8 of the negatives from the strips of negatives)...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1824 on: December 10, 2011, 06:54:AM »
When police stage managed Sheila's body on the floor they pulled down the front of her nightdress, but forgot to re-arrange the nightdress behind her which rucked up when they placed her on the floor from the bed, and dragged her body back so that her head was close to the bedside cabinet...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1825 on: December 10, 2011, 07:06:AM »
Paint evidence on end of silencer is problematic, since no corresponding/varnish was found on the end of the silencer which came from the scratch mark on the bedside cabinet...

The distinctive curved mark found on the underside of the kitchen mantle, is duplicated on the front lower face of the bedside cabinet...

According to the evidence...

no paint sample was ever taken from the bedside cabinet, only the aga surround in the kitchen...

However...

we now know police actually took two paint samples, one (RC/1) which was taken on 8th August 1985, and another (RWC/1) taken on 14th August 1985. According to DS Davidson, DI Cook (SOC) handed him RC/1 at the scene on 8th August 1985 which was taken with a view to matching some paint found on the end of a guns barrel, whilst the other paint sample (RWC/1) was taken by Cook on 14th August 1985, and used in October 1985 to match paint found on the end of a silencer...

Two paint samples, RC/1 and RWC/1 - which police have since merged into the same paint sample...

Problem...

DS Davidson (COLP interviews 1991) says paint was found on the end of a guns barrel, not a silencer and that the gun in question was found downstairs, whereas Cook (SOC) maintains paint sample relates to paint found on end of the silencer...

Two paint samples, RC/1 and RWC/1...

Two damaged areas, a mark on the aga surround, and another similar mark on the front face of the bedside cabinet...

One mark upstairs, the other downstairs...

Marks that were made by a guns barrel, and a silencer...

I am led to believe that the mark on the front lower face of the bedside cabinet was made when police at the scene were trying to reconstruct how Sheila had originally shot herself, and that at this time the gun which was being used went off and shot her for the second time, and that the barrel of this gun made the mark on the bedside cabinet after police had moved Sheila's body to the floor from the bed...

Essex police and DS Davidson refuse to identify the gun which had paint on the end of its barrel, which was found downstairs...

Why?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 07:07:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

mertol22

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1826 on: December 10, 2011, 08:56:AM »
Mertol you are detracting from the point. If I had killed my family including two of my own children, I would not lie on the bedroom floor to blow my brains out. I would lie on the bed to do it!
i was uder the view i was trying to understand how Sheila managed to be on the floor, her position is not a suicide position anyway her body position is all wrong.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1827 on: December 10, 2011, 08:59:AM »
Mertol you are detracting from the point. If I had killed my family including two of my own children, I would not lie on the bedroom floor to blow my brains out. I would lie on the bed to do it!
i was uder the view i was trying to understand how Sheila managed to be on the floor, her position is not a suicide position anyway her body position is all wrong.

Her body position is all wrong, yet the police were prepared to accept that Sheila had committed suicide - why?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1828 on: December 10, 2011, 09:03:AM »
The position of Sheila's head to the side of the bedside cabinet, should have alerted police to the fact that she could not have shot herself twice, once under the chin, and the rifle end up on her body as it did, because her head could not be brought back into alignment to enable the trajectory of the fatal bullet fired under the chin to travel up into her brain, since if you lifted her head upwards the entry wound under the chin would be tucked up with no room at all for the rifles barrel to fit into position to fire the fatal shot, a task made impossible by the length of the weapon, itself...

Oh look, position of rifle against neck/throat has moved?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 09:08:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1829 on: December 10, 2011, 09:14:AM »
According to information  provided to me by my informant ('Z'), somebody appears to have applied bloody fingers around one of the wounds, in between these pictures being taken with a view of trying to stem the flow of blood. now why wound police at the scene be trying to stem the flow of blood from one of the wounds if Sheila had been dead already for over 7 hours?

On the other hand...

What if police had just accidentally shot her for a second time?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 09:14:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...