you should all know this?

[Buddy]

I wonder if someone can post where this information about Ann taking home a bucket of bloodstained clothes comes from? I;ve heard it several times, but have failed to find out the source?

Not sure she did Grahame. I seem to recall that RB told her [Ann] to dump them as she [Sheila] would not need them any more, which I thought was a tad callace.
Then RB seemed to be a bit uncaring anyway.

[grahameb]

I wonder if someone can post where this information about Ann taking home a bucket of bloodstained clothes comes from? I;ve heard it several times, but have failed to find out the source?

Not sure she did Grahame. I seem to recall that RB told her [Ann] to dump them as she [Sheila] would not need them any more, which I thought was a tad callace.
Then RB seemed to be a bit uncaring anyway.

If therefore if there is nothing written down we must consider this to be just hearsay and has no substance in fact.

[Buddy]

yup

[mike tesko]

CurrentlY leaving Harrogate...

[mike tesko]

Why would DCI Jones, and PI Miller, both independently of each other, record for the fact that Shila;s body was found on the far side of the bed, if her body was on the floor at that stage?

Mike, it's going to come down to what is meant by 'side'.  Many will interpret it as far side of the bed ,while many will no doubt interpret it as far side of the bed (i.e. floor).   

Many will interpret there being no mention of 'floor' as meaning she's on the bed.  Others will simply say that it was rough notes recording by police under pressure and therefore the fact that 'floor' is not mentioned is no more than (yet) another 'mistake'.

I don't see it as a mistake at all. He was describing where the bodies were in the room, and to me "on the far side of the bed" automatically means on the floor. I'm sure that's what I would have written too. If I was describing seeing her on the bed I would have said "on the bed, towards the far side" or similar. As you say, it's a good example of the way people interpret things differently.

There can be no doubt what DCI Jones meant, and what PI Miller meant when they both recorded that Sheila's body was on the far side of the bed - since I have seen a photograph of Sheila on the bed, a photograph which was taken after PI Miller and DCI Jones visited the bedroom. Both use the word "on" followed by a reference to the far side of the bed, this to me, cannot be interpreted to mean that they saw Sheila's body on the floor, since both would have simply wrote, that they saw Sheila's body on the floor on the far side of the bed, which is different to saying that they saw her body on the far side of the bed...

Both PI Miller, and DCI Jones, omit the reference to Sheila's body being "on the floor"...

[grahameb]

Why would DCI Jones, and PI Miller, both independently of each other, record for the fact that Shila;s body was found on the far side of the bed, if her body was on the floor at that stage?

Mike, it's going to come down to what is meant by 'side'.  Many will interpret it as far side of the bed ,while many will no doubt interpret it as far side of the bed (i.e. floor).   

Many will interpret there being no mention of 'floor' as meaning she's on the bed.  Others will simply say that it was rough notes recording by police under pressure and therefore the fact that 'floor' is not mentioned is no more than (yet) another 'mistake'.

I don't see it as a mistake at all. He was describing where the bodies were in the room, and to me "on the far side of the bed" automatically means on the floor. I'm sure that's what I would have written too. If I was describing seeing her on the bed I would have said "on the bed, towards the far side" or similar. As you say, it's a good example of the way people interpret things differently.

There can be no doubt what DCI Jones meant, and what PI Miller meant when they both recorded that Sheila's body was on the far side of the bed - since I have seen a photograph of Sheila on the bed, a photograph which was taken after PI Miller and DCI Jones visited the bedroom. Both use the word "on" followed by a reference to the far side of the bed, this to me, cannot be interpreted to mean that they saw Sheila's body on the floor, since both would have simply wrote, that they saw Sheila's body on the floor on the far side of the bed, which is different to saying that they saw her body on the far side of the bed...

Both PI Miller, and DCI Jones, omit the reference to Sheila's body being "on the floor"...

And of course further proof that she must have been on the bed is the fact that if he meant on the floor then he was wrong? Because wasn't she on the near side of the bed on the floor in the official picture? ie nearest the door?

[Roch]

CurrentlY leaving Harrogate...

A visit to SMcK?

[DCrump]

Why would DCI Jones, and PI Miller, both independently of each other, record for the fact that Shila;s body was found on the far side of the bed, if her body was on the floor at that stage?

Mike, it's going to come down to what is meant by 'side'.  Many will interpret it as far side of the bed ,while many will no doubt interpret it as far side of the bed (i.e. floor).   

Many will interpret there being no mention of 'floor' as meaning she's on the bed.  Others will simply say that it was rough notes recording by police under pressure and therefore the fact that 'floor' is not mentioned is no more than (yet) another 'mistake'.

I don't see it as a mistake at all. He was describing where the bodies were in the room, and to me "on the far side of the bed" automatically means on the floor. I'm sure that's what I would have written too. If I was describing seeing her on the bed I would have said "on the bed, towards the far side" or similar. As you say, it's a good example of the way people interpret things differently.

There can be no doubt what DCI Jones meant, and what PI Miller meant when they both recorded that Sheila's body was on the far side of the bed - since I have seen a photograph of Sheila on the bed, a photograph which was taken after PI Miller and DCI Jones visited the bedroom. Both use the word "on" followed by a reference to the far side of the bed, this to me, cannot be interpreted to mean that they saw Sheila's body on the floor, since both would have simply wrote, that they saw Sheila's body on the floor on the far side of the bed, which is different to saying that they saw her body on the far side of the bed...

Both PI Miller, and DCI Jones, omit the reference to Sheila's body being "on the floor"...

And of course further proof that she must have been on the bed is the fact that if he meant on the floor then he was wrong? Because wasn't she on the near side of the bed on the floor in the official picture? ie nearest the door?

He seems to have entered the room via the door where June was. From that position, Sheila was on the far side of the bed, be that on the floor on the bed, depending on your interpretation.

[DCrump]

Why would DCI Jones, and PI Miller, both independently of each other, record for the fact that Shila;s body was found on the far side of the bed, if her body was on the floor at that stage?

Mike, it's going to come down to what is meant by 'side'.  Many will interpret it as far side of the bed ,while many will no doubt interpret it as far side of the bed (i.e. floor).   

Many will interpret there being no mention of 'floor' as meaning she's on the bed.  Others will simply say that it was rough notes recording by police under pressure and therefore the fact that 'floor' is not mentioned is no more than (yet) another 'mistake'.

I don't see it as a mistake at all. He was describing where the bodies were in the room, and to me "on the far side of the bed" automatically means on the floor. I'm sure that's what I would have written too. If I was describing seeing her on the bed I would have said "on the bed, towards the far side" or similar. As you say, it's a good example of the way people interpret things differently.

There can be no doubt what DCI Jones meant, and what PI Miller meant when they both recorded that Sheila's body was on the far side of the bed - since I have seen a photograph of Sheila on the bed, a photograph which was taken after PI Miller and DCI Jones visited the bedroom. Both use the word "on" followed by a reference to the far side of the bed, this to me, cannot be interpreted to mean that they saw Sheila's body on the floor, since both would have simply wrote, that they saw Sheila's body on the floor on the far side of the bed, which is different to saying that they saw her body on the far side of the bed...

Both PI Miller, and DCI Jones, omit the reference to Sheila's body being "on the floor"...

Of course there can be doubt about what Jones meant and it certainly can be interpreted to mean he meant on the floor. Actually I don't doubt that he meant on the floor. You are free to disagree,  but that don't make it so.

[grahameb]

Why would DCI Jones, and PI Miller, both independently of each other, record for the fact that Shila;s body was found on the far side of the bed, if her body was on the floor at that stage?

Mike, it's going to come down to what is meant by 'side'.  Many will interpret it as far side of the bed ,while many will no doubt interpret it as far side of the bed (i.e. floor).   

Many will interpret there being no mention of 'floor' as meaning she's on the bed.  Others will simply say that it was rough notes recording by police under pressure and therefore the fact that 'floor' is not mentioned is no more than (yet) another 'mistake'.

I don't see it as a mistake at all. He was describing where the bodies were in the room, and to me "on the far side of the bed" automatically means on the floor. I'm sure that's what I would have written too. If I was describing seeing her on the bed I would have said "on the bed, towards the far side" or similar. As you say, it's a good example of the way people interpret things differently.

There can be no doubt what DCI Jones meant, and what PI Miller meant when they both recorded that Sheila's body was on the far side of the bed - since I have seen a photograph of Sheila on the bed, a photograph which was taken after PI Miller and DCI Jones visited the bedroom. Both use the word "on" followed by a reference to the far side of the bed, this to me, cannot be interpreted to mean that they saw Sheila's body on the floor, since both would have simply wrote, that they saw Sheila's body on the floor on the far side of the bed, which is different to saying that they saw her body on the far side of the bed...

Both PI Miller, and DCI Jones, omit the reference to Sheila's body being "on the floor"...

And of course further proof that she must have been on the bed is the fact that if he meant on the floor then he was wrong? Because wasn't she on the near side of the bed on the floor in the official picture? ie nearest the door?

He seems to have entered the room via the door where June was. From that position, Sheila was on the far side of the bed, be that on the floor on the bed, depending on your interpretation.

Were there two doors into the room then?

[DCrump]

Why would DCI Jones, and PI Miller, both independently of each other, record for the fact that Shila;s body was found on the far side of the bed, if her body was on the floor at that stage?

Mike, it's going to come down to what is meant by 'side'.  Many will interpret it as far side of the bed ,while many will no doubt interpret it as far side of the bed (i.e. floor).   

Many will interpret there being no mention of 'floor' as meaning she's on the bed.  Others will simply say that it was rough notes recording by police under pressure and therefore the fact that 'floor' is not mentioned is no more than (yet) another 'mistake'.

I don't see it as a mistake at all. He was describing where the bodies were in the room, and to me "on the far side of the bed" automatically means on the floor. I'm sure that's what I would have written too. If I was describing seeing her on the bed I would have said "on the bed, towards the far side" or similar. As you say, it's a good example of the way people interpret things differently.

There can be no doubt what DCI Jones meant, and what PI Miller meant when they both recorded that Sheila's body was on the far side of the bed - since I have seen a photograph of Sheila on the bed, a photograph which was taken after PI Miller and DCI Jones visited the bedroom. Both use the word "on" followed by a reference to the far side of the bed, this to me, cannot be interpreted to mean that they saw Sheila's body on the floor, since both would have simply wrote, that they saw Sheila's body on the floor on the far side of the bed, which is different to saying that they saw her body on the far side of the bed...

Both PI Miller, and DCI Jones, omit the reference to Sheila's body being "on the floor"...

And of course further proof that she must have been on the bed is the fact that if he meant on the floor then he was wrong? Because wasn't she on the near side of the bed on the floor in the official picture? ie nearest the door?

He seems to have entered the room via the door where June was. From that position, Sheila was on the far side of the bed, be that on the floor on the bed, depending on your interpretation.

Were there two doors into the room then?

Well now you have me doubting but yes, I'm pretty sure there are. One off the landing, which is on the right hand side of the room if you have your back to the window and is where June lay, and a door which I think I think is a connecting door to a room used for storage. That door is the one you can see in the photos of Sheila and is towards the left hand end of the room.

[DCrump]

There are definately 2 doors. Take a look at post 3 on abs picture thread, the floor plans are there. Taff Jones would have had to have entered through the door where June lay, the one that opened onto the landing.

[Hartley]

If she was on the bed, would you need to describe her feet as being closest to the window? If she was on the bed then I believe it would be described as such, not the far side, just on the bed.

So I'm gonna disagree as well, but there's no change there.

[Hartley]

There are definately 2 doors. Take a look at post 3 on abs picture thread, the floor plans are there. Taff Jones would have had to have entered through the door where June lay, the one that opened onto the landing.

Yes there are, the door from the landing next to where June was found, and a door into a box room next to where Sheila was found (on the floor).

[DCrump]

If she was on the bed, would you need to describe her feet as being closest to the window? If she was on the bed then I believe it would be described as such, not the far side, just on the bed.

So I'm gonna disagree as well, but there's no change there.

Good point about her feet.