you should all know this?

[mike tesko]

What also becomes clear, upon reading Julie Mugfords Diary notes, if they are to be treated as being truthful, is that she did not come forward voluntarily, but rather that she was pressurised by her friend`Lizzie` to come forward to spill the beans, which throws a completely different light on the evidence she gave to the court whilst testifying...

These notes contain evidence to show that JulIe Mugford deceived the court about her reasons for coming forward. She has made it absolutely clear by cross referencing what she wrote in these notes, against which she gave whilst testifying, that she is a compulsive liar, and extremely manipulative...

Some sense can now be made, regarding why a police action report came into being, begging the question, as to why Julie Mugfords first confession statement is written out in the third person?

Obviously, some input from `Lizzie`, or someone else in the know...

I ask you. Mugford is a head in a school in Canada. Does that look like a girl who was "led astray" by Jeremy? No. It indicates that she is a natural leader.

Reason why this first confession statement written in third person has never yet been disclosed despite some 26 years having elapsed since someone else put words into Julie Mugfords mouth, now becomes clear - it has been deliberately withheld under the guise of pii, since to disclose it would expose Julie Mugford as a liar, because the reason for her coming forward when she did, was most definitely untruthful...

Now that the contents of these handwritten notes made by Mugford have identified the real reason why Mugford came forward, steps should be taken by those responsible for presenting a case for Jerremys case to be sent back to appeal, to obtain access to that first confessional statement written in the third person...

[clifford]

The 1635 action reports connected with the investigations into these five deaths:-

Here is a list of all the relevant action reports instigated by Essex police in connection with this case, somewhere amongst all these enquiries, lies the truth about what really did occur with respect to these murders,and how the police gathered evidence for use in Jeremy Bambers prosecution and conviction...

I have most of the hand written action reports, in my possession, but some are obviously missing and unaccounted for, some have been withheld under pii. I could post some of them, if relevant..

Have a look at the sequence with which these contemporaneously recorded action reports are logged for any information relating to the alleged find of the silencer by the relatives? Why is it that the police appear not to show any interest in the find of the silencer by the relatives until after 11th September 1985?

Why is it, that it was a long time after 11th September 1985, before police were asking Ann Eaton to make a statement about the find of the silencer on 10th August? Why wouldn`t the police be interested in a silencer found by the relatives on 10th August, until a month later, if the silencer relatives found was the same one police had already sent to the lab` on 13th and 30th August 1985? It. Doesn`t add up or make sense...

All the handwritten action reports are dated, timed and signed, and so specific dates when police became interested in doing things, and when specific things got done, can be verified...

Police would not be asking Ann Eaton at sometime after 11th September 1985, to make a statement about finding the silencer on 10th August, because Ann did not find any of the two silencers, and she only handed over the silencer to the police on 11th September, she did not purportedly hand over a silencer to DS `Stan` Jones` on evening of 12th August, it was supposedly Peter Eaton who handed over a silencer, which David allegedly found on 10th August, so why would the police want a statement from Ann Eaton?

Because I assume Ann was there when the silencer was found.

[clifford]

What also becomes clear, upon reading Julie Mugfords Diary notes, if they are to be treated as being truthful, is that she did not come forward voluntarily, but rather that she was pressurised by her friend`Lizzie` to come forward to spill the beans, which throws a completely different light on the evidence she gave to the court whilst testifying...

These notes contain evidence to show that JulIe Mugford deceived the court about her reasons for coming forward. She has made it absolutely clear by cross referencing what she wrote in these notes, against which she gave whilst testifying, that she is a compulsive liar, and extremely manipulative...

Some sense can now be made, regarding why a police action report came into being, begging the question, as to why Julie Mugfords first confession statement is written out in the third person?

Obviously, some input from `Lizzie`, or someone else in the know...

I ask you. Mugford is a head in a school in Canada. Does that look like a girl who was "led astray" by Jeremy? No. It indicates that she is a natural leader.

Reason why this first confession statement written in third person has never yet been disclosed despite some 26 years having elapsed since someone else put words into Julie Mugfords mouth, now becomes clear - it has been deliberately withheld under the guise of pii, since to disclose it would expose Julie Mugford as a liar, because the reason for her coming forward when she did, was most definitely untruthful...

Now that the contents of these handwritten notes made by Mugford have identified the real reason why Mugford came forward, steps should be taken by those responsible for presenting a case for Jerremys case to be sent back to appeal, to obtain access to that first confessional statement written in the third person...

I was just wondering if Mugford went to the cops before the deal with the NOW, or after.

[Blodwynflower]

This must by now be the longest topic thread of the whole forum.....

[bob]

This must by now be the longest topic thread of the whole forum.....

Yep. And I'm still none the wiser 

[smiffy]

This must by now be the longest topic thread of the whole forum.....

Yep. And I'm still none the wiser 

What about the report of 10 photographs listed as being of Sheila with a rifle on her in the kitchen. etc etc..
Or will it be a claim..of until I see it I won't believe it"...though the readiness to believe other claims without proof from liars ...somewhat undermines such a position being taken.

[Blodwynflower]

Question for Mike - What is the opinion of your informant with regard to this case?

Thankyou.

[clifford]

I am troubled by this 22 air rifle. I assume this was a BSA airsporter. I have owned a couple of these.
What makes the difference between an air rifle, and a firearm is the psi.
Now I have never ever seen an air weapon that a silencer could be screwed onto. It would be pointless because it makes little noise.
Someone posted on here that they had, or did have this rifle. Can this person tell us if it would be capable of having a silencer attatchment, or are we being fed another load of crap.
I have seen the latest air weapons that you can attach a silencer to, but we are talking about an air weapon in the late seventies/early eighties. Forgot to say I had BSA meteor as well.[no silencer attachment].

[mike tesko]

What also becomes clear, upon reading Julie Mugfords Diary notes, if they are to be treated as being truthful, is that she did not come forward voluntarily, but rather that she was pressurised by her friend`Lizzie` to come forward to spill the beans, which throws a completely different light on the evidence she gave to the court whilst testifying...

These notes contain evidence to show that JulIe Mugford deceived the court about her reasons for coming forward. She has made it absolutely clear by cross referencing what she wrote in these notes, against which she gave whilst testifying, that she is a compulsive liar, and extremely manipulative...

Some sense can now be made, regarding why a police action report came into being, begging the question, as to why Julie Mugfords first confession statement is written out in the third person?

Obviously, some input from `Lizzie`, or someone else in the know...

I ask you. Mugford is a head in a school in Canada. Does that look like a girl who was "led astray" by Jeremy? No. It indicates that she is a natural leader.

Reason why this first confession statement written in third person has never yet been disclosed despite some 26 years having elapsed since someone else put words into Julie Mugfords mouth, now becomes clear - it has been deliberately withheld under the guise of pii, since to disclose it would expose Julie Mugford as a liar, because the reason for her coming forward when she did, was most definitely untruthful...

Now that the contents of these handwritten notes made by Mugford have identified the real reason why Mugford came forward, steps should be taken by those responsible for presenting a case for Jerremys case to be sent back to appeal, to obtain access to that first confessional statement written in the third person...

I was just wondering if Mugford went to the cops before the deal with the NOW, or after.

Well, what we do know, is that the first confession statement made by Mugford to the police was written in the third person, or in other words, somebody was responsible for putting words into Mugfords mouth, and that on its own says a great deal about the state of play at that crucial time...

According to her own notes, Mugford did not go to the police voluntarily, she was pressurised into going to the police by her close friend "Lizzie". Why would she need to be pressurised by somebody else to go to the police if what she has been saying was true? I think these comments in her notes, give a clear indication that what she had to say was just a story, nothing more, nothing less...

[smiffy]

I am troubled by this 22 air rifle. I assume this was a BSA airsporter. I have owned a couple of these.
What makes the difference between an air rifle, and a firearm is the psi.
Now I have never ever seen an air weapon that a silencer could be screwed onto. It would be pointless because it makes little noise.
Someone posted on here that they had, or did have this rifle. Can this person tell us if it would be capable of having a silencer attatchment, or are we being fed another load of crap.
I have seen the latest air weapons that you can attach a silencer to, but we are talking about an air weapon in the late seventies/early eighties. Forgot to say I had BSA meteor as well.[no silencer attachment].

There were 2 types of BSA Meteor...the type we are concerned with.
The normal type back then could not be fitted with a silencer without modifiacation.
The carbine type BSA  Meteor had provision for a silencer.
Which type the one was that was kept at WHF needs to be established to either progress or dismiss this line of theory.

[clifford]

Yes, but it was Lizzie that done the fiddling not Mugford, so the question is still not answered.
Did Mugford go to the cops with a 25 grand promise in her pocket. She had the motive to do so.

[mike tesko]

The 1635 action reports connected with the investigations into these five deaths:-

Here is a list of all the relevant action reports instigated by Essex police in connection with this case, somewhere amongst all these enquiries, lies the truth about what really did occur with respect to these murders,and how the police gathered evidence for use in Jeremy Bambers prosecution and conviction...

I have most of the hand written action reports, in my possession, but some are obviously missing and unaccounted for, some have been withheld under pii. I could post some of them, if relevant..

I would just like to put some met onto the skeleton details contained in these police action reports, posting copies of the hand written versions of some, to illustrate the date when they came into existence. I could post everyone in my possession but that would take forever - perhaps I might produce a schedule showing the date and time in the hand written versions of these action reports?

Here is police action report 200, instigated on 14th September 1985, at 16.50hrs, DC Thomerson:- here are details where a request is being made for David Boutflour to make a statement about finding the silencer, and ammunition, but why wait until 14th September 1985 for such a statement to be made considering that it has been claimed that the silencer was found on 10th August 1985, and it had been sent to the lab' on two occasions, namely on 13th and 30th August 1985?

For me, it does not ring true about claiming that the relatives found the silencer on 10th August 1985, and that it was sent to the lab' on two occasions in the meantime, and it was not until month later that police were trying to find out about when the silencer was found, and when?

[grahameb]

http://www.bsaguns.co.uk/chronology.php#

http://www.bsaguns.co.uk/PDFS/BSA%20spring%20guns.pdf

http://www.bsaguns.co.uk/silencers.php

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/bsa-airguns.htm

http://www.solware.co.uk/air-pistol-air-rifle/air-rifle-silencer.shtml

[clifford]

For once I am speechless. Keira has taken the wind out of my sails. I will tiptoe now.

[mike tesko]

Message Form 71

this is a copy recorded on a message form, bearing the identifying number 71, which relates to a request for police to meet David Boutflour at whf to collect further property on 14th September 1985, at 13:00hrs, which is accompanied by police action report number 195, dated, 14th September 1985, timed at 14:15hrs...

Boutflour gave police two different versions of what he found inside the gun cupboard, tell you what - why not let him have another five or six accounts, because this really is unacceptable...