you should all know this?

[grahameb]

Dale, I wonder if you would be so good as to introduce yourself in the foyer before you post again? Thank you.

[smiffy]

You appear worried dale....

Carry on as you have been doing Mike.
The more information that is public knowledge the better.

I feel sure JB's legal representatives will have all the documents Mike has already and they can contact him if they feel they have not.

[Roch]

Dale is a strong supporter of Jeremy, I suspect possibly linked to FB Innocent Page.

[ceedeells]

'Z' s account of what police found once they got into the kitchen

Two bodies, neither checked properly to see if still alive, it turns out Sheila was not shot at all, but that there was blood on the floor beside where her body was laying. Police now know that she was faking being dead, but in their haste to search the farmhouse and look for all the other potential victims, they left Sheila's body in the kitchen unsupervised...

This mistake...

led to further complications later when Sheila got upstairs and shot herself by use of a rifle with a silencer fitted to its barrel, this other rifle was the .22 air rifle, not the .22semi-automatic anshulz rifle, police believe that Sheila gathered up this air rifle at the bottom of the stairs in the kitchen, and that she took it upstairs with her to the bedroom. Sheila was shot with use of the .22 air rifle in the side of the neck at a time when a silencer was fitted to the end of its barrel, this is what 'Z' told me...

Mike, I believe the evidence or tale being submitted by 'Z' is incorrect regarding the air rifle.

IF the police KNEW Sheila used the .22 air rifle, then why would they not dispose it?  Instead - without it being cleaned - the Police handed the gun over to me upon Jeremy's imprisonment.

they must be more stupid than i thought

Police handed whf over to the relatives, which if we are to believe what we have been told, contained the silencer, the .22 air rifle and all the other weapons and ammunitions, part of which was used in the shootings, at least in the case of the silencer and the .22 air rifle, and a 12 bore shotgun, and not forgetting Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle, if it was there or not?

'Z' showed me a photograph of Sheila on the bed when there was only one wound present there - if you were to look at this photograph and take out the upper entry wound and accompanying trail of blood and fingermarks from it, and also the horizontal type blood trail from the lower wound (which is an overlay from the blood from the upper entry wound, you would be left with the lower entry wound, and a vertical trail of dried blood running from the lower entry wound - this is as close to what I saw regarding blood flow from the lower wound in the photograph which 'Z' showed to me the other day:-

There was no rifle barrel against the neck in the photograph 'Z' showed me...

Mike, the air rifle was not left at whf.....it was given to me.....by the police themselves!  Therefore, I do believe it was not used..........and they had hold of that rifle along time before I got hold of it.

Funnt then...

Why police should seize it along with 12 bore shotgun and fingerprint it, and find fingerprints on both whIch police became Interested in? The .22 air rifle was eventually found by relatives at bottom of small stairs in kitchen, within a very short distance of Ralph` body, and on the route Sheila took to get upstairs. There is even a belief that the rifle which WPC Jeapes saw leaning against the bedroom window before armed police went in, could have been the air rifle which was used to inflict the first shot...

Mike: What does 'Funnt then......' mean?  I have no idea.

Regarding the rifle, I do not understand how, 'Z' can say that the Police KNEW the air rifle was used......that they knew from the beginning.  My point is, if the Police KNEW this, then why would they hand it to me.  They had it in their possesssion for a few years before they delivered it to me. 

Why did they not 'lose' it?   Instead, they handed it to me personally, in the full knowledge that one day this rifle could be used at a later date should their be any discrepencies in the case.

Also, 'Z' stated (I believe), that relatives/whf held the rifle.  That in fact is incorrect information.

You know these facts already......upon all the info I have,  this does not add up.

[chochokeira]

On this video his former lawyer also say's it's 'really sad' and that 'a thoroughly innocent man is in jail'!!

Perhaps you should take another look and listen to the whole report before you start posting.

i didnt say he din't say that i just said of the evidence, no need to twist matters because you don't like what his former lawyers says. It has nothing to do with what i posted.

With respect I must disagree with you there, Dale. You cherry picked this old report, which has both negative and positive aspects from Bamber's point of view, and reported solely the negative aspect here. So it has everything to do with what you posted because you attempted to give this report a negative slant. It doesn't take rocket science to guess why you might have done that.

If Dale is Dale Rudge (22) Grahame, he's linked to you know who.

[Roch]

If Dale is Dale Rudge (22) Grahame, he's linked to you know who.

They are not linked 

[grahameb]

Dale is a strong supporter of Jeremy, I suspect possibly linked to FB Innocent Page.

Those on the innocent page don't agree with the forum. They think Jeremy doesn't want it. But Jeremy appears to say different things to different people? Because he told both ngb and Jackie that he doesn't mind the forum only some of the things discussed on the forum.

[grahameb]

Mike: What does 'Funnt then......' mean?  I have no idea.

Regarding the rifle, I do not understand how, 'Z' can say that the Police KNEW the air rifle was used......that they knew from the beginning.  My point is, if the Police KNEW this, then why would they hand it to me.  They had it in their possesssion for a few years before they delivered it to me. 

Why did they not 'lose' it?   Instead, they handed it to me personally, in the full knowledge that one day this rifle could be used at a later date should their be any discrepencies in the case.

Also, 'Z' stated (I believe), that relatives/whf held the rifle.  That in fact is incorrect information.

You know these facts already......upon all the info I have,  this does not add up.

I think funnt is a misspelling of funny?
Cd's are you still in possession of this rifle? I think I remember you saying that you no longer have it? Also another contact told be that Jeremy only owned an air rifle and had no other firearms at his cottage. Is this right?

[ceedeells]

Mike: What does 'Funnt then......' mean?  I have no idea.

Regarding the rifle, I do not understand how, 'Z' can say that the Police KNEW the air rifle was used......that they knew from the beginning.  My point is, if the Police KNEW this, then why would they hand it to me.  They had it in their possesssion for a few years before they delivered it to me. 

Why did they not 'lose' it?   Instead, they handed it to me personally, in the full knowledge that one day this rifle could be used at a later date should their be any discrepencies in the case.

Also, 'Z' stated (I believe), that relatives/whf held the rifle.  That in fact is incorrect information.

You know these facts already......upon all the info I have,  this does not add up.

I think funnt is a misspelling of funny?
Cd's are you still in possession of this rifle? I think I remember you saying that you no longer have it? Also another contact told be that Jeremy only owned an air rifle and had no other firearms at his cottage. Is this right?

Hi Grahame,

Regarding Jeremy owning a firearm or not, it's information I received so long ago, I cannot remember.   I do however, have a recollection of being told all firearms (be his or the family's) were kept at whf.

I had to remove the rifle from my home as my children grow up. 

[grahameb]

Mike: What does 'Funnt then......' mean?  I have no idea.

Regarding the rifle, I do not understand how, 'Z' can say that the Police KNEW the air rifle was used......that they knew from the beginning.  My point is, if the Police KNEW this, then why would they hand it to me.  They had it in their possesssion for a few years before they delivered it to me. 

Why did they not 'lose' it?   Instead, they handed it to me personally, in the full knowledge that one day this rifle could be used at a later date should their be any discrepencies in the case.

Also, 'Z' stated (I believe), that relatives/whf held the rifle.  That in fact is incorrect information.

You know these facts already......upon all the info I have,  this does not add up.

I think funnt is a misspelling of funny?
Cd's are you still in possession of this rifle? I think I remember you saying that you no longer have it? Also another contact told be that Jeremy only owned an air rifle and had no other firearms at his cottage. Is this right?

Hi Grahame,

Regarding Jeremy owning a firearm or not, it's information I received so long ago, I cannot remember.   I do however, have a recollection of being told all firearms (be his or the family's) were kept at whf.

I had to remove the rifle from my home as my children grow up.

Thank you Cd's. I must let the forum know that I believe your information to be reliable, accurate and trustworthy.

[vidvic]

Mike: What does 'Funnt then......' mean?  I have no idea.

Regarding the rifle, I do not understand how, 'Z' can say that the Police KNEW the air rifle was used......that they knew from the beginning.  My point is, if the Police KNEW this, then why would they hand it to me.  They had it in their possesssion for a few years before they delivered it to me. 

Why did they not 'lose' it?   Instead, they handed it to me personally, in the full knowledge that one day this rifle could be used at a later date should their be any discrepencies in the case.

Also, 'Z' stated (I believe), that relatives/whf held the rifle.  That in fact is incorrect information.

You know these facts already......upon all the info I have,  this does not add up.

I think funnt is a misspelling of funny?
Cd's are you still in possession of this rifle? I think I remember you saying that you no longer have it? Also another contact told be that Jeremy only owned an air rifle and had no other firearms at his cottage. Is this right?

Hi Grahame,

Regarding Jeremy owning a firearm or not, it's information I received so long ago, I cannot remember.   I do however, have a recollection of being told all firearms (be his or the family's) were kept at whf.

I had to remove the rifle from my home as my children grow up.

Thank you Cd's. I must let the forum know that I believe your information to be reliable, accurate and trustworthy.

Does that mean that 'z' got it wrong?

[clifford]

I have been re reading the statements of R,& D Boutflours In particular the events of 10 Aug. 1985.
To say they are muddled would be an understatement.
RB. I went with my daughter to WHF where we met my son David, and Mr Cock.
On finding the moderator RB said you had better give them to the police son.
DB. On the 10 Aug.1985 I arranged to meet Ann at WHF, and on arrival at 11 am Ann was aready there on her own. We were then joined by Mr Cock.He does not metion his father in this statement, but does in further statements.
It also seems that RB, DB, and AE informed the police of the finding of the moderator.
Of interest as well is the statement of Ann's regarding the packaging of the moderator. Ann said Jones put it in a kitchen roll holder, and sellotaped the ends.
When Jones gave evidence under oath he said I put the moderator in a kitchen roll holder, as I had nothing with me, I then folded the ends over and placed a peg at each end.

[grahameb]

Mike: What does 'Funnt then......' mean?  I have no idea.

Regarding the rifle, I do not understand how, 'Z' can say that the Police KNEW the air rifle was used......that they knew from the beginning.  My point is, if the Police KNEW this, then why would they hand it to me.  They had it in their possesssion for a few years before they delivered it to me. 

Why did they not 'lose' it?   Instead, they handed it to me personally, in the full knowledge that one day this rifle could be used at a later date should their be any discrepencies in the case.

Also, 'Z' stated (I believe), that relatives/whf held the rifle.  That in fact is incorrect information.

You know these facts already......upon all the info I have,  this does not add up.

I think funnt is a misspelling of funny?
Cd's are you still in possession of this rifle? I think I remember you saying that you no longer have it? Also another contact told be that Jeremy only owned an air rifle and had no other firearms at his cottage. Is this right?

Hi Grahame,

Regarding Jeremy owning a firearm or not, it's information I received so long ago, I cannot remember.   I do however, have a recollection of being told all firearms (be his or the family's) were kept at whf.

I had to remove the rifle from my home as my children grow up.

Thank you Cd's. I must let the forum know that I believe your information to be reliable, accurate and trustworthy.

Does that mean that 'z' got it wrong?

Looks like it don't it?

[smiffy]

In the court transcript concerning Hammersley he claims to have been supervised when examining the scene by Cook. However in his COLP interview DS Davidson claims to have supervised Hammersley.
Rather strange is it not.  Davidson also claimed at the COLP interview at first that he was searching/finding items...but when its pointed out he filled in the forms he changed his mind and claimed Hammersley was searching. How about Hammersley not being present on the 7th and Davidson doing both searching and filling in the forms.

[mike tesko]

'Z' s account of what police found once they got into the kitchen

Two bodies, neither checked properly to see if still alive, it turns out Sheila was not shot at all, but that there was blood on the floor beside where her body was laying. Police now know that she was faking being dead, but in their haste to search the farmhouse and look for all the other potential victims, they left Sheila's body in the kitchen unsupervised...

This mistake...

led to further complications later when Sheila got upstairs and shot herself by use of a rifle with a silencer fitted to its barrel, this other rifle was the .22 air rifle, not the .22semi-automatic anshulz rifle, police believe that Sheila gathered up this air rifle at the bottom of the stairs in the kitchen, and that she took it upstairs with her to the bedroom. Sheila was shot with use of the .22 air rifle in the side of the neck at a time when a silencer was fitted to the end of its barrel, this is what 'Z' told me...

Mike, I believe the evidence or tale being submitted by 'Z' is incorrect regarding the air rifle.

IF the police KNEW Sheila used the .22 air rifle, then why would they not dispose it?  Instead - without it being cleaned - the Police handed the gun over to me upon Jeremy's imprisonment.

they must be more stupid than i thought

Police handed whf over to the relatives, which if we are to believe what we have been told, contained the silencer, the .22 air rifle and all the other weapons and ammunitions, part of which was used in the shootings, at least in the case of the silencer and the .22 air rifle, and a 12 bore shotgun, and not forgetting Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle, if it was there or not?

'Z' showed me a photograph of Sheila on the bed when there was only one wound present there - if you were to look at this photograph and take out the upper entry wound and accompanying trail of blood and fingermarks from it, and also the horizontal type blood trail from the lower wound (which is an overlay from the blood from the upper entry wound, you would be left with the lower entry wound, and a vertical trail of dried blood running from the lower entry wound - this is as close to what I saw regarding blood flow from the lower wound in the photograph which 'Z' showed to me the other day:-

There was no rifle barrel against the neck in the photograph 'Z' showed me...

Mike, the air rifle was not left at whf.....it was given to me.....by the police themselves!  Therefore, I do believe it was not used..........and they had hold of that rifle along time before I got hold of it.

Funnt then...

Why police should seize it along with 12 bore shotgun and fingerprint it, and find fingerprints on both whIch police became Interested in? The .22 air rifle was eventually found by relatives at bottom of small stairs in kitchen, within a very short distance of Ralph` body, and on the route Sheila took to get upstairs. There is even a belief that the rifle which WPC Jeapes saw leaning against the bedroom window before armed police went in, could have been the air rifle which was used to inflict the first shot...

Mike: What does 'Funnt then......' mean?  I have no idea.

Regarding the rifle, I do not understand how, 'Z' can say that the Police KNEW the air rifle was used......that they knew from the beginning.  My point is, if the Police KNEW this, then why would they hand it to me.  They had it in their possesssion for a few years before they delivered it to me. 

Why did they not 'lose' it?   Instead, they handed it to me personally, in the full knowledge that one day this rifle could be used at a later date should their be any discrepencies in the case.

Also, 'Z' stated (I believe), that relatives/whf held the rifle.  That in fact is incorrect information.

You know these facts already......upon all the info I have,  this does not add up.

FIrst of all...

Pollice handed over one of the two principle silencers in this case over to the relatives, so it does not necessarily follow that if it was used the police would not hand it over...

Secondly...

Relatives took possessIon of the .22 Air rifle from the scene on 10th August, they kept it until afternoon of 12th August. At which point Jeremy went to see the Eatons, demanding its return. The relatives handed Jeremy it back, along with the 12 bore shotgun. If relatives had got the silencer by that stage they would have given it back, also...

Air rifle was used, in the same way one of the two principle silencers was used, and handed back...