you should all know this?

[mike tesko]

Mike, are you able to divulge if your informant has come forward as a direct result of your forum?

I can confirm that my informant has not come forward as a direct result of my forum going on line, but that contact between us was made by, and because of other means, which I cannot divulge...

[clifford]

Air rifle pellets are tiny little things arent they? or they were when i was a kid.

.22 pellets make the same entry holes as .22 bullets...

No they don't. Also the damage is tenfold.
I am not trying to score points here Mike, but you asked for expert advice, and I gave it to you.
The fact it does not meet your expectations is of no consequence.
I have tried to give you an honest reply,
Make no mistake I would love to agree with you and say Sheila shot herself with the air rifle, but I would be kidding myself.

[Blodwynflower]

Mike, are you able to divulge if your informant has come forward as a direct result of your forum?

I can confirm that my informant has not come forward as a direct result of my forum going on line, but that contact between us was made by, and because of other means, which I cannot divulge...

Thankyou Mike.

[mike tesko]

The first thing which needs resolving, is whether or not, the bullet, PV/20, which major Mead photographed, is the same pieces or a piece of the round shown in the Xray taken of Sheila before autopsy got under way?

YES?

or

NO?

I personally do not think they relate to the same thing, I would be interested to hear anybody else's view on this particular point...

[grahameb]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

That is a good observation Cliff.

[clifford]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

I beg to differ...

But just to be specific, are you referring to the debri as shown in the xray, or to the photographs taken by Major mead, of bullet PV/20?

I give up. NBG will you tell this man that this is NOT a pellet, A pellet would not fragment, in fact I have seen someone re use a pellet taken from a rabbit. You need to rethink this Mike.
Sheila had 12 bore, 4 10 shot guns at her disposal, but chose a 22 air rifle to end her life.
I can't buy into that.

You are overlooking something of extreme importance...

According to the contents of a hand written note sent by DI Cook to the ballistics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, the silencer through which bullets had been fired was warped or damaged due to it having received a hard knock. What this means is that any bullet or pellet fired through the damaged silencer would almost certainly have become damaged before it left the muzzle end of the silencer. With this in mind, it is very probable if not highly likely that any .22 pellet fired through the damaged silencer would fragment in the same way that whatever it is inside Sheila's neck fragmented...

If the silencer was damaged, and it was damaging bullets or pellets fired through it, then the fragmented pieces shown to be present inside Sheila's neck in the Xray, could be the remnants of a damaged pellet so damaged by the damaged silencer...

I do not think a silencer/moderator can be attached to a 22 pellet gun.

[grahameb]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

I beg to differ...

But just to be specific, are you referring to the debri as shown in the xray, or to the photographs taken by Major mead, of bullet PV/20?

I give up. NBG will you tell this man that this is NOT a pellet, A pellet would not fragment, in fact I have seen someone re use a pellet taken from a rabbit. You need to rethink this Mike.
Sheila had 12 bore, 4 10 shot guns at her disposal, but chose a 22 air rifle to end her life.
I can't buy into that.

You are overlooking something of extreme importance...

According to the contents of a hand written note sent by DI Cook to the ballistics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, the silencer through which bullets had been fired was warped or damaged due to it having received a hard knock. What this means is that any bullet or pellet fired through the damaged silencer would almost certainly have become damaged before it left the muzzle end of the silencer. With this in mind, it is very probable if not highly likely that any .22 pellet fired through the damaged silencer would fragment in the same way that whatever it is inside Sheila's neck fragmented...

If the silencer was damaged, and it was damaging bullets or pellets fired through it, then the fragmented pieces shown to be present inside Sheila's neck in the Xray, could be the remnants of a damaged pellet so damaged by the damaged silencer...

I do not think a silencer/moderator can be attached to a 22 pellet gun.

I don't think so either. You don't need a moderator on an air rifle.

[mike tesko]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

I beg to differ...

But just to be specific, are you referring to the debri as shown in the xray, or to the photographs taken by Major mead, of bullet PV/20?

I give up. NBG will you tell this man that this is NOT a pellet, A pellet would not fragment, in fact I have seen someone re use a pellet taken from a rabbit. You need to rethink this Mike.
Sheila had 12 bore, 4 10 shot guns at her disposal, but chose a 22 air rifle to end her life.
I can't buy into that.

You are overlooking something of extreme importance...

According to the contents of a hand written note sent by DI Cook to the ballistics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, the silencer through which bullets had been fired was warped or damaged due to it having received a hard knock. What this means is that any bullet or pellet fired through the damaged silencer would almost certainly have become damaged before it left the muzzle end of the silencer. With this in mind, it is very probable if not highly likely that any .22 pellet fired through the damaged silencer would fragment in the same way that whatever it is inside Sheila's neck fragmented...

If the silencer was damaged, and it was damaging bullets or pellets fired through it, then the fragmented pieces shown to be present inside Sheila's neck in the Xray, could be the remnants of a damaged pellet so damaged by the damaged silencer...

I do not think a silencer/moderator can be attached to a 22 pellet gun.

Of course it can...

[dsf]

So, now we've finally got the full (Z) scenario (at least the main points).

On one hand it does appear to clear up some mysteries, such as why the doctor mentioned only one bullet hole, or how a stunned and badly injured Sheila could get upstairs (because she wasn't stunned and badly injured).

It also helps to explain why a cover-up was chosen - not just one huge cock-up, but three! (although you could say there were four - the failure to realise that Sheila was alive in the kitchen, the failure to cover all the stairways, the failure to realise that Sheila was alive in the bedroom, and the accidental shot).

On the other hand it's more difficult to believe that the police could have made just so many huge mistakes (although I suppose that stranger things have happened). It's also more difficult to believe that the police would think that Sheila was dead in the kitchen when there were no obvious bullet holes (even if she was lying next to a quantity of blood).

[mertol22]

upon storming WHF the team would have spent little time in one room

[clifford]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

I beg to differ...

But just to be specific, are you referring to the debri as shown in the xray, or to the photographs taken by Major mead, of bullet PV/20?

I give up. NBG will you tell this man that this is NOT a pellet, A pellet would not fragment, in fact I have seen someone re use a pellet taken from a rabbit. You need to rethink this Mike.
Sheila had 12 bore, 4 10 shot guns at her disposal, but chose a 22 air rifle to end her life.
I can't buy into that.

You are overlooking something of extreme importance...

According to the contents of a hand written note sent by DI Cook to the ballistics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, the silencer through which bullets had been fired was warped or damaged due to it having received a hard knock. What this means is that any bullet or pellet fired through the damaged silencer would almost certainly have become damaged before it left the muzzle end of the silencer. With this in mind, it is very probable if not highly likely that any .22 pellet fired through the damaged silencer would fragment in the same way that whatever it is inside Sheila's neck fragmented...

If the silencer was damaged, and it was damaging bullets or pellets fired through it, then the fragmented pieces shown to be present inside Sheila's neck in the Xray, could be the remnants of a damaged pellet so damaged by the damaged silencer...

I do not think a silencer/moderator can be attached to a 22 pellet gun.

Of course it can...

Are you suggesting that a moderator from a .22 can be attached to a 22 air rifle Mike?

[ngb1066]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

I beg to differ...

But just to be specific, are you referring to the debri as shown in the xray, or to the photographs taken by Major mead, of bullet PV/20?

I give up. NBG will you tell this man that this is NOT a pellet, A pellet would not fragment, in fact I have seen someone re use a pellet taken from a rabbit. You need to rethink this Mike.
Sheila had 12 bore, 4 10 shot guns at her disposal, but chose a 22 air rifle to end her life.
I can't buy into that.

I have to say that I would be very surprised if an air rifle was used by Sheila.  If it had been used at close range the pellet could have penetrated and caused serious harm or possibly even killed, but I have never known an air rifle pellet to fragment.  Depending upon the design they tend to flatten and spread.  There is too little energy produced by a normal air rifle to cause fragmentation. On the other hand a .22 hollowpoint round does have a tendency to fragment.  It is designed to expand on impact (similar to a dumdum) but it sometimes fragments particularly if it contacts something hard like bone.  For what it is worth the defence believe that the only weapon used was the Anschutz rifle.

 

[mike tesko]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

I beg to differ...

But just to be specific, are you referring to the debri as shown in the xray, or to the photographs taken by Major mead, of bullet PV/20?

I give up. NBG will you tell this man that this is NOT a pellet, A pellet would not fragment, in fact I have seen someone re use a pellet taken from a rabbit. You need to rethink this Mike.
Sheila had 12 bore, 4 10 shot guns at her disposal, but chose a 22 air rifle to end her life.
I can't buy into that.

You are overlooking something of extreme importance...

According to the contents of a hand written note sent by DI Cook to the ballistics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, the silencer through which bullets had been fired was warped or damaged due to it having received a hard knock. What this means is that any bullet or pellet fired through the damaged silencer would almost certainly have become damaged before it left the muzzle end of the silencer. With this in mind, it is very probable if not highly likely that any .22 pellet fired through the damaged silencer would fragment in the same way that whatever it is inside Sheila's neck fragmented...

If the silencer was damaged, and it was damaging bullets or pellets fired through it, then the fragmented pieces shown to be present inside Sheila's neck in the Xray, could be the remnants of a damaged pellet so damaged by the damaged silencer...

I do not think a silencer/moderator can be attached to a 22 pellet gun.

Of course it can...

Are you suggesting that a moderator from a .22 can be attached to a 22 air rifle Mike?

Yes, providing that it has the correct thread on the end of its barrel, and some .22 air rifles are more powerful than others. What I am saying is that it was possible for a .22 pellet to become damaged inside the warped silencer before it exited the muzzle of the silencer and upon entering Sheila's neck it simply dispersed naturally without striking anything in particular to make it fragment, because it was already fragmented before it went into her neck...

[ngb1066]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

Cliff - you make a good point about the wax coating.  After handling rimfire ammunition you feel it on your hands.  I suspect that this would have the effect of reducing the amount of lead deposited. I do not know why wax is used on rimfire rounds and not on bigger centrefire rounds.

[mike tesko]

Exacly Mike. There is no way is that a waisted pellet in Sheila's neck.
Can I draw your attention to the WAX cfovering on this type of ammo.
Do you not recognise the signicance of this. Can you realise why there was no lead on Sheila's hands.
WAX WAX WAX.

I beg to differ...

But just to be specific, are you referring to the debri as shown in the xray, or to the photographs taken by Major mead, of bullet PV/20?

I give up. NBG will you tell this man that this is NOT a pellet, A pellet would not fragment, in fact I have seen someone re use a pellet taken from a rabbit. You need to rethink this Mike.
Sheila had 12 bore, 4 10 shot guns at her disposal, but chose a to end her life.
I can't buy into that.

I have to say that I would be very surprised if an air rifle was used by Sheila.  If it had been used at close range the pellet could have penetrated and caused serious harm or possibly even killed, but I have never known an air rifle pellet to fragment.  Depending upon the design they tend to flatten and spread.  There is too little energy produced by a normal air rifle to cause fragmentation. On the other hand a .22 hollowpoint round does have a tendency to fragment.  It is designed to expand on impact (similar to a dumdum) but it sometimes fragments particularly if it contacts something hard like bone.  For what it is worth the defence believe that the only weapon used was the Anschutz rifle.

Some air rifles are more powerful than others, and produce greater poundage when fired, and require control by gun law:-

(1) - http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/#a01
(2) - http://www.chweston.co.uk/acatalog/Airgun_Laws.html