you should all know this?

[vidvic]

Smiffy,

I don't believe a word of this whole 'prosecution witness' story from Mike.

And please, show me something of 'substance' to prove that any of this story is anything more than a figment of Mike's imagination.

Vidvic! You should be ashamed of yourself. There was I, thinking you were one of the good guys among the antis, like Shona, and you go and do a 'rest my case' Hartley style personal attack on Mike. What grounds do you have for the above character assassination? None - or you would have detailed these. So what does your objection boil down to - the gut feeling of an anti who is intent on keeping Jeremy in prison at all costs? One who isn't too fussed whether Jeremy is guilty or not as long as he stays in the slammer?

Keira. If I don't believe what Mike is posting, then I have every right to say so. As I said further in the thread, Mike sometimes posts theories for discussion.

[grahameb]

Think about it all seriously for a second here. Photographs were not taken until 10am.

That would mean that Sheila and apparently June were on the bed up until that point, so it's no longer just a cock up by the firearms team, they would have been on the bed after all but two of the firearms unit vacated the premises and scene of crimes entered along with other senior officers, the alleged movement of the bodies would have involved so many people, and as Rochy says, makes the logs completely incompatible.

Yes Mike is lying his head off, contrary to the apparent popular belief, this is not a game.

It is however somewhat refreshing to see other people questioning these ridiculous claims, even those in the pro camp. Perhaps people aren't quite so gullible after all. 

Not "quite so gullibe"? Does that imply that we are still gullible then?

Yes it does, very much so. Although some more than others.

The word gullible comes from the seagulls. They swallow anything that comes there way. So you cannot have degrees of gullibility. I resent that accusation. Just because we have different views than you that doesn't make us gullible. If you want to make accusations like that can I remind you that it works both ways? Icould say that the antis are gullible because they swallow everything the police tell them or thathey they are too trusting of the relatives. That is gullibility. To trust someone unflinchingly and without question. On that reading then I could say that the antis are in fact gullible. Because they question nothing from their side and believe unflinchingly the testimonies of all the prosecution witnesses. At least the pros Bambers question EVERYTHING. Something that the antis do not because they are still stuck in the past.

[mike tesko]

You´d need to see the negatives - anyone can alter photos these days. If I had used more time on this, I could have made it look exactly as if there was only one bullet hole.

Photograph you tampered with was one taken of Sheila on the floor, but two photographs I have been shown and seen were when Sheila`s body was on bed, you forgot to erase barrel of gun against neck which would have alerted me as to the possibility of the picture having been doctored. There is also the excessive amount of blood on the nightdress which is exactly the same from two wounds...

The two different photographs which I have been shown and seen have not been tampered with in the same way as your example...

[grahameb]

Just to put you all out of your agony here is the fucking picture you don't believe exists.

I told you not to tell them Tesko!!

That picture is falsified. Why is it? Because Mike said that he saw 2 photographs of Sheila "on the bed" one with one bullet hole and the other with two bullet holes. This photograph shows Sheila with one bullet hole on the floor, meaningthat it is a mock up of the original photograph and proves nothing.

[andrea]

you forgot to put a bed underneath too, tut tut.

 , i agree.

[grahameb]

you forgot to put a bed underneath too, tut tut.

 , i agree.

Yes I noticed your post after I posted. Great minds think alike. Or as Hartley has it great "gullible minds" think alike.

[vidvic]

So Mike, Please explain how these photos you've seen, fit in with the female body in the kitchen theory?

[chochokeira]

But apparantly, according to Mike, this sighting led to Police logging 2 bodies downstairs, and moving through the kitchen with Sheila lying on the floor, after which, she got up and made her way to the bedroom.....but it's fair enough if you don't place any importance to the logs.....

I don't know what lies behind all of this, Vidvic, and neither do you. What I do know is that I do not believe that Mike has fabricated this account. You have no grounds to suggest that Mike is a liar and I believe you owe him and apology for suggesting that.

[grahameb]

But apparantly, according to Mike, this sighting led to Police logging 2 bodies downstairs, and moving through the kitchen with Sheila lying on the floor, after which, she got up and made her way to the bedroom.....but it's fair enough if you don't place any importance to the logs.....

I don't know what lies behind all of this, Vidvic, and neither do you. What I do know is that I do not believe that Mike has fabricated this account. You have no grounds to suggest that Mike is a liar and I believe you owe him and apology for suggesting that.

Yes I agree. None of this proves that Mike is lying. Rather that he is being lied to.

[grahameb]

Just to put you all out of your agony here is the fucking picture you don't believe exists.

I told you not to tell them Tesko!!

Z. Please go to the foyer and introduce yourself before you post again. Thank you.

[mertol22]

perhaps its time to raise the debate to a new level, if i had been one of the undertakers that morning  removing the deceased my 1st thoughts would have been location of deceased , ease of access, as to the length of time the family had been dead though not my concern the smell in the rooms i promise you i would have had a good idea, fresh blood has its own smell, factors would have played a part as to the condition of the deceased , heating on ect, no windows open, contained heat, Sheila died later than the rest of the family, even make up smells if a body is still warm.

[vidvic]

Mike is an inteligent man. If he was being lied to he would smell it a mile off and not post it on the forum. I repeat. I believe this is a tactic to draw information from unknown policemen who Mike believes are witholding information. Its a 'fishing trip'.

This is from only 3 pages back on this forum....

"There was absolutely no doubt at all in the minds of senior police officers who attended the scene - that Sheila had fired the rifle which killed the others, and herself. But now I can reveal for the first time in 26 years the evidence the police obtained, and how this evidence, verified Sheila`s involvement and the role she played in the shootings. At long last the myth that Sheila could not have fired the rifle can now be exposed as nothing but a damning lie, since she did fire the rifle, its 100% certain that she didi..."

So, that thread is out the window then......

[andrea]

perhaps its time to raise the debate to a new level, if i had been one of the undertakers that morning  removing the deceased my 1st thoughts would have been location of deceased , ease of access, as to the length of time the family had been dead though not my concern the smell in the rooms i promise you i would have had a good idea, fresh blood has its own smell, factors would have played a part as to the condition of the deceased , heating on ect, no windows open, contained heat, Sheila died later than the rest of the family, even make up smells if a body is still warm.

eeew, how long was you an undertaker mertol?  was the job in yorks?

[chochokeira]

No Grahame, Mike is on a 'fishing trip'. He believes ex police officers read the forum and he believes they have things to hide. He hopes that one of them, if they think an ex colleague is about to break ranks, may come forward with information. It's a tactic.

Of course, why did no one come forward with any information when Bamber was offering a million pound reward?

Why show Mike pictures which they were not prepared to be given to the defence, when those pictures would lead to almost instant CCRC action?

Why communicate in a bizarre one sided conversation in open forum?

Do you really believe Sheila could be pronounced dead at the scene, whilst still alive?

Vic, you're not the only forum member who holds reservations about (Z).  However with the number of police blunders that the defence and supporters are expected (by your side) to simply write-off as mistakes but nothing sinister... It's a bit rich if your side then dismisses out of hand, the potential for additional, previously unknown blunders coming to light.  That said, I respect your right to post up your views.

Well said, Rocky +1

[grahameb]

perhaps its time to raise the debate to a new level, if i had been one of the undertakers that morning  removing the deceased my 1st thoughts would have been location of deceased , ease of access, as to the length of time the family had been dead though not my concern the smell in the rooms i promise you i would have had a good idea, fresh blood has its own smell, factors would have played a part as to the condition of the deceased , heating on ect, no windows open, contained heat, Sheila died later than the rest of the family, even make up smells if a body is still warm.

eeew, how long was you an undertaker mertol?  was the job in yorks?

I had to go to an undertakers in Colchester in connection with my work a few years back. I went into the room there the cold store was where they also prepared the bodies. There was this man on his tea break holding a currant bun and a bottle of milk from which he was drinking. Well I suppose it is something they get used to? But I'm afraid it's not the job for me.