The handwritten notes of Miss Marples (Ann Eaton) - read them here for yourself

[Newbury1]

CA Eaton Cross examined.

A. Yes, I must have done, because it is written down here. I can remember the policeman telling me.......Auntie June and Sheila were on the bed with the gun between them and I asked how they were shot and he went like this.

What is going on with Rivlin here. The court album shows SC on the floor, the prosecution are saying JB stage managed this (and it looks stage managed).

AE says a policeman told her June and SC were on the bed (which clearly implies that if any stage managing occurred it was after the poilice entered).

Why o why did Rivlin not ask AE which policeman told her this and have him cross examined, and why did Rivlin not ask AE to elaborate on what AE meant when the policeman "went like this " - like what!!

[Buddy]

CA Eaton Cross examined.

A. Yes, I must have done, because it is written down here. I can remember the policeman telling me.......Auntie June and Sheila were on the bed with the gun between them and I asked how they were shot and he went like this.

What is going on with Rivlin here. The court album shows SC on the floor, the prosecution are saying JB stage managed this (and it looks stage managed).

AE says a policeman told her June and SC were on the bed (which clearly implies that if any stage managing occurred it was after the poilice entered).

Why o why did Rivlin not ask AE which policeman told her this and have him cross examined, and why did Rivlin not ask AE to elaborate on what AE meant when the policeman "went like this " - like what!!

I understand what you are saying, but Ann said she could not remember who told her, so there was no point in asking. Not that I disagree with you of course.

[Newbury1]

I understand what you are saying, but Ann said she could not remember who told her, so there was no point in asking. Not that I disagree with you of course.

Yes, and no disrespect, but she wrote enough notes down - funny she did not write down the name of the policeman - it just goes on and on!!

And why did Rivlin not at least try a bit harder on this point - questioning AE with something like (in front of the Jury) Q.You say someone, a policeman, definitely told you the bodies were found by EP on the bed, is that correct - A. Yes!! Q. And that the gun was lying between them? - Yes!!

I am no lawyer, but even I know you have to lead the witness (to some degree), in order to influence the Jury  - even more so when using circumstantial "evidence" only.

[Roch]

CA Eaton Cross examined.

A. Yes, I must have done, because it is written down here. I can remember the policeman telling me.......Auntie June and Sheila were on the bed with the gun between them and I asked how they were shot and he went like this.

What is going on with Rivlin here. The court album shows SC on the floor, the prosecution are saying JB stage managed this (and it looks stage managed).

AE says a policeman told her June and SC were on the bed (which clearly implies that if any stage managing occurred it was after the poilice entered).

Why o why did Rivlin not ask AE which policeman told her this and have him cross examined, and why did Rivlin not ask AE to elaborate on what AE meant when the policeman "went like this " - like what!!

I understand what you are saying, but Ann said she could not remember who told her, so there was no point in asking. Not that I disagree with you of course.

Yes, and no disrespect, but she wrote enough notes down - funny she did not write down the name of the policeman - it just goes on and on!!

And why did Rivlin not at least try a bit harder on this point - questioning AE with something like (in front of the Jury) Q.You say someone, a policeman, definitely told you the bodies were found by EP on the bed, is that correct - A. Yes!! Q. And that the gun was lying between them? - Yes!!

I am no lawyer, but even I know you have to lead the witness (to some degree), in order to influence the Jury   - even more so when using circumstantial "evidence" only.

Why was an exprerienced defence barrister not instructed?  Rivlin had been a prosecution barrister up until the Bamber case.   This was a big case.

[Buddy]

They forgot Roch

[smiffy]

CA Eaton Cross examined.

A. Yes, I must have done, because it is written down here. I can remember the policeman telling me.......Auntie June and Sheila were on the bed with the gun between them and I asked how they were shot and he went like this.

What is going on with Rivlin here. The court album shows SC on the floor, the prosecution are saying JB stage managed this (and it looks stage managed).

AE says a policeman told her June and SC were on the bed (which clearly implies that if any stage managing occurred it was after the poilice entered).

Why o why did Rivlin not ask AE which policeman told her this and have him cross examined, and why did Rivlin not ask AE to elaborate on what AE meant when the policeman "went like this " - like what!!

We know only 2 policemen were at JB's house that day when Ann was there and she knows who they both were .
She uses police to describe more than one and policeman when it was only one officer there or active etc ...ie taking a statement..so she was in no doubt it was Clarke who could be the only one that could have said this to her.
Unless she was making it up and attributing words to the police they never said like she does at times with JB. One wonders if she did this as to why she did this.

Now if Clarke was under orders to spread false information as they were working on most certainly a murder then the suicide claim appears to have been purposely made to enable destruction of the bodies as soon as possible. But that would not make sense would it....? Why destroy useful evidence.
It makes sense though if the police were covering up and only claimed suicide to be able to destroy the bodies quickly when all along they were intending to frame someone else if the suicide story failed.
By spreading false information they sometimes hope someone reacts and gives themselves away or that an innocent says something they can use against them and become a target.

JB was not the only relative/s they may have selected as possible fall guys for their cover up.

[smiffy]

Why would Ann be writing a list of questions to ask the police on the morning of the 9th that included the mention of the telephone and whether it had blood on it?

Logically one would be thinking...well if Ralph used it when he was wounded some of his blood may be on it.

But Ann in her statement of the 8th is supposed to be of the mind that only one shot was fired at each victim. She makes a meal of of this issue which leaves one feeling uncomfortable. She was also told these shots were "like this"....as per her evidence in court as per the shooting and that it must have all been head shots.

So rationally Ann should not be writing a question as to whether there was blood on the phone as due to then info she had been fed (if correct) the issue of Ralph being wounded before phoning JB and thus getting blood on the phone should not really arise. Sheila is supposed to have "done it".

What becomes really odd though is her statement of november 16th 1985 when she opens it witha  very strange claim to not remember something...which is highly suspicious.
One makes statements about what one does remember not what you do not remember.
So what prompted this not remembering whether JB said in her presence that he thought Ralph had already been wounded when he phoned JB.

For if taken that she was already thinking or knew more shots had been fired than one per victim prior to the morning of the 9th it raises the question as to how she knew. This seems born out by her thinking in regards to the blood on the phone, from wounds, when Ralph phoned JB.

It also brings forward the view that Ann knew or believed  before the morning of the 9th that the police were lying about the victims.

The other list of question to ask the police ...prior to the morning of the 9th also supports that Ann knew the police had lied as she asks the question as to whether Ralph was shot upstairs first!

were some questions purely asked to give a mask of innocence or were they genuine enquiries?

[smiffy]

Prior to friday the 9th august from her notes we can be fairly sure Ann knew of Pam's call to June about 10.00pm on the 6th august.
Now in her 8th september statement she makes mention of JB speaking of June having a black eye on the 7th or 8th of august to the police. JM also reports this in her september statement.

The pathologist reports a black eye.

Taking this as fact...and that it was an issue Ann claimed to be interested enough in to ask the police on the night of the 9th about then it seems strange that Ann does not seem to have persued Pam for info as to wherther June spoke of the black eye or not going to bible classes. If June and Pam were so close as some claim then one would expect this info to be shared.
It also seems strange the issue does not appear in Pam's statement of the 12th of august as the police clearly knew of the back eye and the call to June from Pam.

So we have it seems either June not being fully open and as close to her sister as some claim and that she was hiding truths about the black eye and other issues or Pam refused to speak of it ..or if she did then others seem to refuse to want to report this information in case it aided JB's defence.

-------------------------
HOWEVER as the black eye info does not appear in JB's statements  of the 7th or 8th August it is open to question as to whether he ever said anything about June's black eye and that the claims of JM and Ann in this regard were part of the framing with collusion probably involving DS Jones.

[Buddy]

Without trawling through Mugfords statements, I am sure she said that June phoned Pam  when in fact it was the reverse.

[grahameb]

CA Eaton Cross examined.

A. Yes, I must have done, because it is written down here. I can remember the policeman telling me.......Auntie June and Sheila were on the bed with the gun between them and I asked how they were shot and he went like this.

What is going on with Rivlin here. The court album shows SC on the floor, the prosecution are saying JB stage managed this (and it looks stage managed).

AE says a policeman told her June and SC were on the bed (which clearly implies that if any stage managing occurred it was after the poilice entered).

Why o why did Rivlin not ask AE which policeman told her this and have him cross examined, and why did Rivlin not ask AE to elaborate on what AE meant when the policeman "went like this " - like what!!

I thought it should have been made clear to the jury what she did in order to describe what the policeman did.
Also if it was the prosecutions argument that Jeremy stage managed sheilas body then I cannot see why the defence did not persue this with the very relevent question, "When was he supposed to have done this "stage managing" seeing that he was with the police when the raid team broke in and found Sheila and June on the bed with the rifle between them?
Common sense must tell them that if the bodies were found on the bed then any stage managing must by default have been made by the police? Why then was this line of questioning not persued by the defence? And why did not the jury question it either?

[Jackiepreece]

Grahame

A jury is meant to be a cross section of the general public maybe this is another occasion JB was not lucky

The person whose murder trial I was a jury member on was also not lucky and I clearly remember one of them saying "the police don't lie do they" and two jurors wanted a quick decision of guilty as they thought he probably was and they both had things to go to that night

[grahameb]

Grahame

A jury is meant to be a cross section of the general public maybe this is another occasion JB was not lucky

The person whose murder trial I was a jury member on was also not lucky and I clearly remember one of them saying "the police don't lie do they" and two jurors wanted a quick decision of guilty as they thought he probably was and they both had things to go to that night

Jackie they should have been reported to the court usher.

[Jackiepreece]

Grahame it was just me up against most of them and a few of them were not really interested they thought it was bad they had to be forced to do jury service

The women who sat next to me and was such a snob he had cropped hair long at the back with earrings it was obvious from her she had made up her mind from the beginning

I bet most of them walked out of Chelmsford crown court and never thought about it again

The boys mother collapsed when he was found guilty

It was a horrible experience  which I will never forget

I still have hope someone will stand up from Jeremys jury even without letting out her real name to show her disgust at witheld evidence

I think if one or more jurors went public it would be a major factor in the conviction being overturned

I can only think they have been warned by the police I would do it in a heartbeat if I thought I was misled