The handwritten notes of Miss Marples (Ann Eaton) - read them here for yourself

[chochokeira]

MIKE          and SMIFFY,   Iam G..SMACKED by your investigative capacities!   'vous ete veritable magnifique criminologistes par excellence.Is to be noted that GLORIOUS 12th of AUGUSTis the start of thee shooting shooting seaon- busy time for partakers. In the notes by Taff's protogee of Agatha Christie, it is to be observed that she had a visit from John WILKIN, in whoe preserve is the Lordship of the Manor of TollesHUNT D'ARCY,accompanied by John SEABROOK, whose fruitree fore fathers resurrected the D'ARCY apple variety!!!    As Mr KIPLING would say using his MINCEPIES, made by CAE Essex's version of delectable  DELIA -  We Make Exceedingly Fine Jams'  HARTLEYif indeed you are the J.R.may I say how INTRIGUED I was with your tome on FLYFISHING!!!          TTFN       PS   CIVITATIS BONUS ET CONSCIENTIA RECTA  i.e. One Rests one's Case - making sure the Cuckoo doesn't Crumble.  Sorry - bit of a balls up -like the Funeral arrangemehts. BTW have you seen this week's CONTY STANDARD ?                                           

Hi Campion, could I ask you to expand on the comments I've highlighted above? I presume you're referring to the D'Arcy Spice apples?

I'm a huge fan of the Wilkin family due to ancestral links with them and with Tiptree and Tolleshunt Knights. I love their wonderful jams and preserves, but as I understand it, neither they nor the Seabrooks were responsible for the D'Arcy Spice apples.

Unless my information is wildly wrong, the D'Arcy Spice apple was first grown by Dr John Salter in his garden at Tolleshunt D'Arcy.

Have you ever tried the D'Arcy Spice apples, Campion? They've the appearance of an traditional old English variety, with quite a thick, blotchy skin which gives them a rather lovely appearance. Their size and shape has definitely not been standardised by the horrible EU. What a lovely flavour they have!

[grahameb]

MIKE          and SMIFFY,   Iam G..SMACKED by your investigative capacities!   'vous ete veritable magnifique criminologistes par excellence.Is to be noted that GLORIOUS 12th of AUGUSTis the start of thee shooting shooting seaon- busy time for partakers. In the notes by Taff's protogee of Agatha Christie, it is to be observed that she had a visit from John WILKIN, in whoe preserve is the Lordship of the Manor of TollesHUNT D'ARCY,accompanied by John SEABROOK, whose fruitree fore fathers resurrected the D'ARCY apple variety!!!    As Mr KIPLING would say using his MINCEPIES, made by CAE Essex's version of delectable  DELIA -  We Make Exceedingly Fine Jams'  HARTLEYif indeed you are the J.R.may I say how INTRIGUED I was with your tome on FLYFISHING!!!          TTFN       PS   CIVITATIS BONUS ET CONSCIENTIA RECTA  i.e. One Rests one's Case - making sure the Cuckoo doesn't Crumble.  Sorry - bit of a balls up -like the Funeral arrangemehts. BTW have you seen this week's CONTY STANDARD ?                                           

Hi Campion, could I ask you to expand on the comments I've highlighted above? I presume you're referring to the D'Arcy Spice apples?

I'm a huge fan of the Wilkin family due to ancestral links with them and with Tiptree and Tolleshunt Knights. I love their wonderful jams and preserves, but as I understand it, neither they nor the Seabrooks were responsible for the D'Arcy Spice apples.

Unless my information is wildly wrong, the D'Arcy Spice apple was first grown by Dr John Salter in his garden at Tolleshunt D'Arcy.

Have you ever tried the D'Arcy Spice apples, Campion? They've the appearance of an traditional old English variety, with quite a thick, blotchy skin which gives them a rather lovely appearance. Their size and shape has definitely not been standardised by the horrible EU. What a lovely flavour they have!

I am ever intrigued by Campion's deep posts. But I doubt that Hartley  is the author J R Hartley. Although there may be a connection with the jam. I once visited a man who had a small nursery in Woodham Mortimer just up the road to me. He had some original varieties of apples that have disappeared from our tables and from the shops as a direct result of Britain joining the EU. I'm not sure if the man is still alive now? If not I hope that his relatives have kept the tradition going of preserving these old English varieties.

[smiffy]

One can imagine Taff Jones and Stan Jones handing over the keys to Ann and Peter Eaton and taking them on a tour etc..
but then of course comes the responsibility bit in which they are warned....

NOW MR AND MRS EATON....you have the keys and responsibility for whf now and if anything goes missing or firearms are not secure etc and someone uses them and someone gets hurt etc then of course YOU will be held to account for allowing that to happen....
SO I would  advise you both to make sure you will not let that happen and that you do something to secure any firearms and ammunition pronto.....GOODNIGHT...

so on the evening of the 9th august...did Ann and Peter take away firearms and ammunition on the advice of a senior police officer and his sidekick?

No need to wait until the next day...  was it not stated that Peter was concerned about leaving firearms and ammunition unsecure at whf in some statements.

[chochokeira]

MIKE          and SMIFFY,   Iam G..SMACKED by your investigative capacities!   'vous ete veritable magnifique criminologistes par excellence.Is to be noted that GLORIOUS 12th of AUGUSTis the start of thee shooting shooting seaon- busy time for partakers. In the notes by Taff's protogee of Agatha Christie, it is to be observed that she had a visit from John WILKIN, in whoe preserve is the Lordship of the Manor of TollesHUNT D'ARCY,accompanied by John SEABROOK, whose fruitree fore fathers resurrected the D'ARCY apple variety!!!    As Mr KIPLING would say using his MINCEPIES, made by CAE Essex's version of delectable  DELIA -  We Make Exceedingly Fine Jams'  HARTLEYif indeed you are the J.R.may I say how INTRIGUED I was with your tome on FLYFISHING!!!          TTFN       PS   CIVITATIS BONUS ET CONSCIENTIA RECTA  i.e. One Rests one's Case - making sure the Cuckoo doesn't Crumble.  Sorry - bit of a balls up -like the Funeral arrangemehts. BTW have you seen this week's CONTY STANDARD ?                                           

Hi Campion, could I ask you to expand on the comments I've highlighted above? I presume you're referring to the D'Arcy Spice apples?

I'm a huge fan of the Wilkin family due to ancestral links with them and with Tiptree and Tolleshunt Knights. I love their wonderful jams and preserves, but as I understand it, neither they nor the Seabrooks were responsible for the D'Arcy Spice apples.

Unless my information is wildly wrong, the D'Arcy Spice apple was first grown by Dr John Salter in his garden at Tolleshunt D'Arcy.

Have you ever tried the D'Arcy Spice apples, Campion? They've the appearance of an traditional old English variety, with quite a thick, blotchy skin which gives them a rather lovely appearance. Their size and shape has definitely not been standardised by the horrible EU. What a lovely flavour they have!

I am ever intrigued by Campion's deep posts. But I doubt that Hartley  is the author J R Hartley. Although there may be a connection with the jam. I once visited a man who had a small nursery in Woodham Mortimer just up the road to me. He had some original varieties of apples that have disappeared from our tables and from the shops as a direct result of Britain joining the EU. I'm not sure if the man is still alive now? If not I hope that his relatives have kept the tradition going of preserving these old English varieties.

There are a few small nurseries that I am aware of which specialise in growing the old English apples. I've bought D'Arcy Spice apples at such a nursery not far from The Laughing Donkey where you can also buy apple juice made from your favourite traditional variety. I don't believe Hartley is one of the Wilkin family, first, because there are hardly any of them left now, second, because they are deeply religious people who would not post here as Hartley does. Hartley's jams are part of Premier Foods, with not a single Hartley among them.

[campion]

Thankyou for your knowledgeable replies, Keiira. The original Darcy spice was, I understand, discovered at DARCY HALL, not at Dr Salters House, where PYC had the THURSDAY CLUB cricket matches, certainly it was well before his time. I may well have gleaned the PIPPIN info from J C LOUDON's Encyclopedia of Gardening I had his 1828 revised edition. Alternatively you could try his serial work - ARBORETUM FRUITICETUM BRITTANICUM. tHE VARIETY was first marketed as the BADDOW pippin. As you are aware SEABROOKS were the most prolific apple cross pollinators. I may be wrong in assuming an affiliation with the Seabrook's of Flinthammock, i.e. Tollesbury, and those of Boreham. Thankyou for messages on Journos.

[smiffy]

In his COLP interview Robert says a few interesting things that let slip bits of info that can help towards getting to the truth.
My view is that Robert never went to whf until monday the 12th of august when a number of others were present. His accounts of going on the saturday do not hold up to any scrutiny.
It does seem to be the case that on her first entry to whf on the evening of the 9th Ann must have taken on the tour as I suggest.
Obviously she would have been eager to tell all to relatives. Either way , Robert's version seems to indicate she phoned about her tour on the 9th and informed him of the tampax container and one of Ralph's shotguns leaning against a wall in his den/office.(we know the police put the shotgun there). So clearly Ann had been on a full tour and not just popped in and out very briefly.

Roberts claim of the 10th ...quote
"While Ann was showing us around she pointed out the empty tampax container and a toy pistol in the sitting room, I think the container was on the table."

 he rambles on.....

however what arises is that he uses the word "us".....which clearly indicates she was showing Robert and someone else....not just Robert. (there seems some foundation of truth here). So who else could this be.... 
going by the claims on the 10th one would assume it to be David. However..such a tour would be conducted more or less straight after arrival... and David and Robert in their accounts never seem to arrive together. There would be no other person for the "us" to be ...on the 10th.
So that collapses.
It does fit though for other persons to be the "us" when Robert really does turn up at whf on the morning of the 12th when others are there and it seems still feasible the tampax container was still in place on the sitting room table.

Later in his ramblings on the same page of the Colp interview Robert says ;

"I assume she thought this because she was not really expecting to find any guns and we went to the gun cupboard after Ann demonstrated to us where she had found the shotgun."

Clearly in this part of the statement it becomes clear that when being taken round on the tour by Ann...then Ann had already before then (the tour) found guns at whf ...ie she had found guns there before Robert and "us" were taken on the tour.
Ann was clearly also only showing where the shotgun had been...not where it still was. It had been moved.
So if Robert is talking of the 10th..then guns etc had already been removed...ie the 9th of august..or if on the 12th then guns had been removed on either the 9th or 10th and Robert was not there on the 10th.

If its correct that Ann had spoken previous to the 10th of her findings..then that places the shotgun as being "found" on the 9th...and quite possibly moved as well as Ann's other findings of other guns that could be within what Robert says was "any guns"....as any guns in its useage could mean one or many.


Amongst Roberts lies some elements of truth are there which help to expose what really happened. He does not lie well enough for the stories he weaves to hold up.

[campion]

Keira, shall we exit the orchard, where we can't see the Woods for the Trees, but on the subject of Trees, may we diverge? UsingYOUR EXTENSIVE detecive resources and capabilities, can you resource a genealogical chart, or FAMILY TREE FOR nEVILL's forebears. IT MAY BE REWARDINNG also interesting . have tried, but could not get very far back.

[chochokeira]

Thankyou for your knowledgeable replies, Keiira. The original Darcy spice was, I understand, discovered at DARCY HALL, not at Dr Salters House, where PYC had the THURSDAY CLUB cricket matches, certainly it was well before his time. I may well have gleaned the PIPPIN info from J C LOUDON's Encyclopedia of Gardening I had his 1828 revised edition. Alternatively you could try his serial work - ARBORETUM FRUITICETUM BRITTANICUM. tHE VARIETY was first marketed as the BADDOW pippin. As you are aware SEABROOKS were the most prolific apple cross pollinators. I may be wrong in assuming an affiliation with the Seabrook's of Flinthammock, i.e. Tollesbury, and those of Boreham. Thankyou for messages on Journos.

Ah, Flinthammock, now you're in the territory of my heart, Camps.

I've seen the D'Arcy Hall story, and it is indeed true that the hall has a wonderful avenue of D'Arcy Spice trees. However, when it comes to stories of who grew what in the Blackwater district we may be in territory as sticky as them there treacle mines up at Tuddwick.

For Essex man and woman, they do loik their little joke.

[chochokeira]

Thankyou for your knowledgeable replies, Keiira. The original Darcy spice was, I understand, discovered at DARCY HALL, not at Dr Salters House, where PYC had the THURSDAY CLUB cricket matches, certainly it was well before his time. I may well have gleaned the PIPPIN info from J C LOUDON's Encyclopedia of Gardening I had his 1828 revised edition. Alternatively you could try his serial work - ARBORETUM FRUITICETUM BRITTANICUM. tHE VARIETY was first marketed as the BADDOW pippin. As you are aware SEABROOKS were the most prolific apple cross pollinators. I may be wrong in assuming an affiliation with the Seabrook's of Flinthammock, i.e. Tollesbury, and those of Boreham. Thankyou for messages on Journos.

Did you see my posts a while back on the annual Thursday Club cricket match played at D'Arcy, attended by no less than HRH the Duke of Edinburgh, Campion? That Pip was obviously a bit of a D'Arcy Spice himself, wasn't he?

[chochokeira]

Keira, shall we exit the orchard, where we can't see the Woods for the Trees, but on the subject of Trees, may we diverge? UsingYOUR EXTENSIVE detecive resources and capabilities, can you resource a genealogical chart, or FAMILY TREE FOR nEVILL's forebears. IT MAY BE REWARDINNG also interesting . have tried, but could not get very far back.

I'm sure already produced one, Campion, the problem is, I think this may be recorded among my many hundreds of pms, so you may have a wait for me to locate it.

[chochokeira]

Keira, shall we exit the orchard, where we can't see the Woods for the Trees, but on the subject of Trees, may we diverge? UsingYOUR EXTENSIVE detecive resources and capabilities, can you resource a genealogical chart, or FAMILY TREE FOR nEVILL's forebears. IT MAY BE REWARDINNG also interesting . have tried, but could not get very far back.

It's taking me so long to locate my pms on this that I've decided it would be quicker to redo the tree and I've now begun to do this. The following is progress so far, which will halt for a time as I have to go out.

I believe I might know what you're thinking, Campion, I thought the same. There is, however, a problem with this scenario. We are, I fear, going to get bogged down in the treacle mines on this as I did when I researched this in the past:

Nevill's birth Registration:
Name: BAMBER,  Ralph N
 Reg. District:  Hambledon
 County:  Surrey
 Year:  1924
 Quarter:  Jul-Aug-Sep
 Mother's Maiden Name:  Nevill
 Volume No:  2A
 Page No:  314



Nevill's parents:

Marriage: Herbert R M Bamber and Beatrice C Nevill
 
Name: BAMBER,  Herbert R M* Known by his middle name of Ralph
Reg. District:  Guildford
County:  Surrey
Year:  1916
Quarter:  Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's Maiden Name:  Nevill
Volume No:  2A
Page No:  153
 

Name: NEVILL,  Beatrice C Reg. District: 
Guildford
County:  Surrey
Year:  1916
Quarter:  Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name:  Bamber
Volume No:  2A
Page No:  153


Nevil's Mother's Birth  
Name: NEVILL,  Beatrice Cecilia
Reg District:  Kensington
County:  London
Year:  1893
Quarter:  Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name:  Not available as prior to 1911
Volume No:  1A
Page No:  127

1911 Census:Clifton House Castle Hill Guildford
County: Surrey


NEVILL, Ralph Head Married  M 65 1846 Architect Bn: Middlesex Tottenham
NEVILL, Mary Beatrice Wife Married18 years  F 56 1855 Private Means Bn: Paddington
NEVILL, Beatrice Cecilia Daughter Single  F 17 1894  London Kensington
  TWEED, Ralph Egerton Bro In Law Single  M 50 1861 Solicitor Retired Bn Honiton
MOXHAM, Esther Servant Single  F 30 1881 Cook Domestic Hants Andover
SMITH, Jane Servant Single  F 24 1887 Parlourmaid Domestic Surrey; Horsell

The following is who I first thought Ralph Nevill was:

The Reminiscences of Lady Dorothy Nevill
Author: Ralph, Nevill (son)

THe problem is, these Nevills and Nevilles kept changing the spellings of their names...

1901 Census

NEVILL, Ralph Head Married  M 55 1846 Architect Bn:Tottenham, Middlesex
NEVILL, Mary Beatrice Wife Married  F 46 1855 Bn: London 
NEVILL, Beatrice Cecilia Daughter Single  F 7 1894 Bn: Kensington, London 
NEVILL, Joan Niece   F 8 1893 Bn: Godalming, Surrey 
PODER, Daisy Beatrice Servant Single  F 21 1880 House & Parlourmaid Bn: Manchester
HALSEY, Clara Servant Single  F 21 1880 Cook Bn Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire

1891 Census:89, Chancery Lane, The Liberty Of The Rolls, Westminster, Strand, London

NEVILL, Ralph Head Married M 45 1846 Architect Bn: Edmonton, Middlesex

[chochokeira]

Keira, shall we exit the orchard, where we can't see the Woods for the Trees, but on the subject of Trees, may we diverge? UsingYOUR EXTENSIVE detecive resources and capabilities, can you resource a genealogical chart, or FAMILY TREE FOR nEVILL's forebears. IT MAY BE REWARDINNG also interesting . have tried, but could not get very far back.

It's taking me so long to locate my pms on this that I've decided it would be quicker to redo the tree and I've now begun to do this. The following is progress so far, which will halt for a time as I have to go out.

I believe I might know what you're thinking, Campion, I thought the same. There is, however, a problem with this scenario. We are, I fear, going to get bogged down in the treacle mines on this as I did when I researched this in the past:

Nevill's birth Registration:
Name: BAMBER,  Ralph N
 Reg. District:  Hambledon
 County:  Surrey
 Year:  1924
 Quarter:  Jul-Aug-Sep
 Mother's Maiden Name:  Nevill
 Volume No:  2A
 Page No:  314



Nevill's parents:

Marriage: Herbert R M Bamber and Beatrice C Nevill
 
Name: BAMBER,  Herbert R M* Known by his middle name of Ralph
Reg. District:  Guildford
County:  Surrey
Year:  1916
Quarter:  Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's Maiden Name:  Nevill
Volume No:  2A
Page No:  153
 

Name: NEVILL,  Beatrice C Reg. District: 
Guildford
County:  Surrey
Year:  1916
Quarter:  Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name:  Bamber
Volume No:  2A
Page No:  153


Nevil's Mother's Birth  
Name: NEVILL,  Beatrice Cecilia
Reg District:  Kensington
County:  London
Year:  1893
Quarter:  Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name:  Not available as prior to 1911
Volume No:  1A
Page No:  127

1911 Census:Clifton House Castle Hill Guildford
County: Surrey


NEVILL, Ralph Head Married  M 65 1846 Architect Bn: Middlesex Tottenham
NEVILL, Mary Beatrice Wife Married18 years  F 56 1855 Private Means Bn: Paddington
NEVILL, Beatrice Cecilia Daughter Single  F 17 1894  London Kensington
  TWEED, Ralph Egerton Bro In Law Single  M 50 1861 Solicitor Retired Bn Honiton
MOXHAM, Esther Servant Single  F 30 1881 Cook Domestic Hants Andover
SMITH, Jane Servant Single  F 24 1887 Parlourmaid Domestic Surrey; Horsell

The following is who I first thought Ralph Nevill was:

The Reminiscences of Lady Dorothy Nevill
Author: Ralph, Nevill (son)

THe problem is, these Nevills and Nevilles kept changing the spellings of their names...

1901 Census

NEVILL, Ralph Head Married  M 55 1846 Architect Bn:Tottenham, Middlesex
NEVILL, Mary Beatrice Wife Married  F 46 1855 Bn: London 
NEVILL, Beatrice Cecilia Daughter Single  F 7 1894 Bn: Kensington, London 
NEVILL, Joan Niece   F 8 1893 Bn: Godalming, Surrey 
PODER, Daisy Beatrice Servant Single  F 21 1880 House & Parlourmaid Bn: Manchester
HALSEY, Clara Servant Single  F 21 1880 Cook Bn Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire

1891 Census:89, Chancery Lane, The Liberty Of The Rolls, Westminster, Strand, London

NEVILL, Ralph Head Married M 45 1846 Architect Bn: Edmonton, Middlesex

1881 Census:12, South Sqre, Grays Inn
County: London, Middlesex

NEVILLE, Ralph Head Single M 35 1846 Architect Bn: Tottenham Middlesex

[grahameb]

What would we ever do without you Keira?

[smiffy]

Lets crank it up a bit more about the issue of when guns and ammunition were removed from WHF.
Having already shown Robert was never there on the 10th of august we need to look at another so called person who claimed to be there ...Dodgy David Boutflour...whose versions of that day vary so much its clear its a pack of lies.

Well lets see about the Bamber 12 bore shotgun...the one JB reclaimed with the .22 air rifle from the Eatons home on the 12th or 13th of august.

In his statement he claims this was in the gun cupboard when he looked in it , inside its brown coloured canvas or leather gun case... but extactly where it was in the gun cupboard he cannot say....well he wouldnt be able to ..as its a lie and he has already by describing other items in there where it could have been placed ruled out it actually fitting in.
In many statements he made the account of where this weapon was supposedly found is not included.

BUT JUST A MINUTE...from Robert's account it seems the high interest things from Ann's first foray into whf with DCI Jones, DS Jones and Peter...were mainly supposed to have 2 items of interest...the tampax container and the 12 bore shotgun  leaning against the wall in the den. Clearly if anything these 2 items that perked her interest were spoken to others about.

So the issue is...Ann sees the 12 bore against the wall in the den....but it is not against the wall in the den when Dody David claims to be there on the 10th....In fact...by his version it seems to have been put in its gun case and then put into the gun cupboard...  Now who could have done that other than Ann or Peter Eaton....and obviously to put it in the gun cupboard and in its case means they entered the gun cupboard ....
Or of course they did enter the gun cupboard for the case and ammunition and collected the other guns and took them all home so nothing was there on saturaday at all. The 2 police officers probably knowing full well what they did and probably observing or helping in this.

[smiffy]

In another episode of Dodgy David Boutflours evil fabricated stories ...he makes another brilliant slip up...

He claims to have returned to whf several days after the 10th of august...he says he cannot recall the date but it was the day after his sister Ann Eaton had allegedly been cleaning the house.....

REALLY David....That is most interesting. So we take it then that on the 10th of August Ann was not cleaning the house at all. Contrary to her many claims. For we know David makes no claims to go to whf on the 11th of august. It seems then that Ann must have done cleaning on a day other than the 10th and any claims to the contrary are lies.

Well we know others were present on the 11th and cleaning was carried out that day by Ann, Jean Boutell and others. The carpet put down in the bedroom etc and the twins beds re-arranged...plus hoovering etc. We know the 12th was not a cleaning day as that is when JB was taken round and Robert was at whf for the first time since the incident that morning at not at Maldon police station as he claimed.

Ann did mess  up her story about bloodied knickers and putting them in the bin and whether Jean was present or not.

And according to Ann she was uncomfortable about going in whf on her own in the first few days as mentioned in her notes...and needing to contact Barbara Wilson by phone or Jean Boutell.