Julie Mugford - contract with News of the World (trial)...

[Blodwynflower]

Good evening all

Just a thought.....

If a template letter was created requesting the article along with others, and members signed it, wouldn't that then be a "higher demand"?

[grahameb]

So if they're too fragile to look at what's the point of keeping them then?

It's not in the public's interest to see them.  And they are exempt from FOI due their fragility.

These things are microfilmed surely? A bit old fashioned if they've only got one copy.

[Blodwynflower]

Unless of course they have been told to refuse requests.....

[chochokeira]

Does anyone have a copy of the New of the World article by any chance please ? - It would be interesting to see what they wrote as she was apparently not very happy with the article as published.

Nobody on the forum has been able to find a copy of the News of the World article.  it would be interesting to see it.

I believe the ERO (Essex Records Office) have one, along with a box of newspaper cuttings (containing national and local Blackwater articles) on the case. A local man collected these during the 80s and his family donated them to the ERO on his death.

However, I've already hotfooted it to the ERO to have a look at these gems and have copies made.

"Sorry", said the searchroom assistant, "we've looked at them and they're too fragile to be produced. They're mostly on cheap paper and that quickly disintegrates"

I don't accept this excuse, NGB, I have newspapers that are well over a 100 years old in my collection and these can still be can still be handled with care.

I appealled to the senior archivist and tried to persuade her to see the logic of allowing me to pay for what may well be a unique collection to be copied now, to save a record of it before the entire contents of the box turns to confetti, but she wouldn't have any of it. She told me the ERO would only copy the collection if there was higher demand for these records.

Might a solicitor's letter do the trick, I wonder, if this were to mention that it would be cheaper for the ERO to volunteer to accept payment for copying these documents rather than to go through the time consuming process of being required to do so under a court order? Jeremy's defence should write to the ERO and try to get copies of these articles, most of which are likely to be unavailable anywhere else.

This is BS. All information should be available in a democracy. I know it is here (Denmark). Newspapers from 17hundred something to this day. ALL. And all Danish citizens have a right to see them if they ask for it.
There must be some rules for this in England as well.
I would ask the relevant ministery.

We do have access to most of our historic archives, Abs, even if its only copies of these. The exceptions are some of the oldest and/or most fragile documents. There is supposed to be a project at the ERO to make more historic documents available but I think the problem is that, in common with so much else in UK, they've run out of money.

[chochokeira]

Unless of course they have been told to refuse requests.....

Hmm, it's possible, I suppose.

[Alias]

Does anyone have a copy of the New of the World article by any chance please ? - It would be interesting to see what they wrote as she was apparently not very happy with the article as published.

Nobody on the forum has been able to find a copy of the News of the World article.  it would be interesting to see it.

I believe the ERO (Essex Records Office) have one, along with a box of newspaper cuttings (containing national and local Blackwater articles) on the case. A local man collected these during the 80s and his family donated them to the ERO on his death.

However, I've already hotfooted it to the ERO to have a look at these gems and have copies made.

"Sorry", said the searchroom assistant, "we've looked at them and they're too fragile to be produced. They're mostly on cheap paper and that quickly disintegrates"

I don't accept this excuse, NGB, I have newspapers that are well over a 100 years old in my collection and these can still be can still be handled with care.

I appealled to the senior archivist and tried to persuade her to see the logic of allowing me to pay for what may well be a unique collection to be copied now, to save a record of it before the entire contents of the box turns to confetti, but she wouldn't have any of it. She told me the ERO would only copy the collection if there was higher demand for these records.

Might a solicitor's letter do the trick, I wonder, if this were to mention that it would be cheaper for the ERO to volunteer to accept payment for copying these documents rather than to go through the time consuming process of being required to do so under a court order? Jeremy's defence should write to the ERO and try to get copies of these articles, most of which are likely to be unavailable anywhere else.

This is BS. All information should be available in a democracy. I know it is here (Denmark). Newspapers from 17hundred something to this day. ALL. And all Danish citizens have a right to see them if they ask for it.
There must be some rules for this in England as well.
I would ask the relevant ministery.

We do have access to most of our historic archives, Abs, even if its only copies of these. The exceptions are some of the oldest and/or most fragile documents. There is supposed to be a project at the ERO to make more historic documents available but I think the problem is that, in common with so much else in UK, they've run out of money.

The newspaper from 1986 isn´t that old... It can´t be that fragile!
Does the newspaper itself have archives? Isn´t it the one that closed down?

[chochokeira]

So if they're too fragile to look at what's the point of keeping them then?

It's not in the public's interest to see them.  And they are exempt from FOI due their fragility.

These things are microfilmed surely? A bit old fashioned if they've only got one copy.

A proportion of the ERO's documents are not yet microfilmed. These articles are among the unfilmed documents. It may be that they're quite recent acquisitions, donated after the budget cuts, hence there just isn't the money to film them. This would not of course explain the Senior Archivist's refusal to take copies of these even when I offered to pay the full cost of this. I suspect there was an element of bureaucratic bloody mindedness in her refusal: how dare this member of the public attempt interfere with my/our routines and subvert our procedures. It may be that she simply couldn't be bothered to make the effort.

[chochokeira]

Does anyone have a copy of the New of the World article by any chance please ? - It would be interesting to see what they wrote as she was apparently not very happy with the article as published.

Nobody on the forum has been able to find a copy of the News of the World article.  it would be interesting to see it.

I believe the ERO (Essex Records Office) have one, along with a box of newspaper cuttings (containing national and local Blackwater articles) on the case. A local man collected these during the 80s and his family donated them to the ERO on his death.

However, I've already hotfooted it to the ERO to have a look at these gems and have copies made.

"Sorry", said the searchroom assistant, "we've looked at them and they're too fragile to be produced. They're mostly on cheap paper and that quickly disintegrates"

I don't accept this excuse, NGB, I have newspapers that are well over a 100 years old in my collection and these can still be can still be handled with care.

I appealled to the senior archivist and tried to persuade her to see the logic of allowing me to pay for what may well be a unique collection to be copied now, to save a record of it before the entire contents of the box turns to confetti, but she wouldn't have any of it. She told me the ERO would only copy the collection if there was higher demand for these records.

Might a solicitor's letter do the trick, I wonder, if this were to mention that it would be cheaper for the ERO to volunteer to accept payment for copying these documents rather than to go through the time consuming process of being required to do so under a court order? Jeremy's defence should write to the ERO and try to get copies of these articles, most of which are likely to be unavailable anywhere else.

This is BS. All information should be available in a democracy. I know it is here (Denmark). Newspapers from 17hundred something to this day. ALL. And all Danish citizens have a right to see them if they ask for it.
There must be some rules for this in England as well.
I would ask the relevant ministery.

We do have access to most of our historic archives, Abs, even if its only copies of these. The exceptions are some of the oldest and/or most fragile documents. There is supposed to be a project at the ERO to make more historic documents available but I think the problem is that, in common with so much else in UK, they've run out of money.

The newspaper from 1986 isn´t that old... It can´t be that fragile!
Does the newspaper itself have archives? Isn´t it the one that closed down?

Most of the articles were from 1985 or 1986. I argued the toss with the assistants and Senior Archivist over this, Abs, but they assured me that such cheap and highly acidic paper has been used for newsprint in recent decades that it very soon flakes away to confetti. They said that a high acidic content is the killer factor and I know this to be true from the conservation measures I need to take with my own archives.

[Alias]

Does anyone have a copy of the New of the World article by any chance please ? - It would be interesting to see what they wrote as she was apparently not very happy with the article as published.

Nobody on the forum has been able to find a copy of the News of the World article.  it would be interesting to see it.

I believe the ERO (Essex Records Office) have one, along with a box of newspaper cuttings (containing national and local Blackwater articles) on the case. A local man collected these during the 80s and his family donated them to the ERO on his death.

However, I've already hotfooted it to the ERO to have a look at these gems and have copies made.

"Sorry", said the searchroom assistant, "we've looked at them and they're too fragile to be produced. They're mostly on cheap paper and that quickly disintegrates"

I don't accept this excuse, NGB, I have newspapers that are well over a 100 years old in my collection and these can still be can still be handled with care.

I appealled to the senior archivist and tried to persuade her to see the logic of allowing me to pay for what may well be a unique collection to be copied now, to save a record of it before the entire contents of the box turns to confetti, but she wouldn't have any of it. She told me the ERO would only copy the collection if there was higher demand for these records.

Might a solicitor's letter do the trick, I wonder, if this were to mention that it would be cheaper for the ERO to volunteer to accept payment for copying these documents rather than to go through the time consuming process of being required to do so under a court order? Jeremy's defence should write to the ERO and try to get copies of these articles, most of which are likely to be unavailable anywhere else.

This is BS. All information should be available in a democracy. I know it is here (Denmark). Newspapers from 17hundred something to this day. ALL. And all Danish citizens have a right to see them if they ask for it.
There must be some rules for this in England as well.
I would ask the relevant ministery.

We do have access to most of our historic archives, Abs, even if its only copies of these. The exceptions are some of the oldest and/or most fragile documents. There is supposed to be a project at the ERO to make more historic documents available but I think the problem is that, in common with so much else in UK, they've run out of money.

The newspaper from 1986 isn´t that old... It can´t be that fragile!
Does the newspaper itself have archives? Isn´t it the one that closed down?

Most of the articles were from 1985 or 1986. I argued the toss with the assistants and Senior Archivist over this, Abs, but they assured me that such cheap and highly acidic paper has been used for newsprint in recent decades that it very soon flakes away to confetti. They said that a high acidic content is the killer factor and I know this to be true from the conservation measures I need to take with my own archives.

OK, so we have to ask Muggie herself to send us copies. Surely she has kept that particular issue! 

[chochokeira]

Good evening all

Just a thought.....

If a template letter was created requesting the article along with others, and members signed it, wouldn't that then be a "higher demand"?

I'm unsure what level of demand the ERO require for items to be considered worth microfilming, but it's worth a try, Bloddy.

[chochokeira]

So if they're too fragile to look at what's the point of keeping them then?

That was precisely my point. Basically, the ERO seem to prefer to allow these documents to disintegrate rather than allow a member of the public to pay for them to be copied. It's absurd.

[chochokeira]

Here's what the ERO has on the Bamber case:

SA 1/179/1


 
Repository: Essex Record Office
Level: Category  Sound Archive Level: Fonds  BBC ESSEX

Level:
Item 
Reference Code  SA 1/179/1
Dates of Creation 1987
Scope and Content Title: Robert Bunyard, Retiring Chief Constable of EssexSpeaker (s): Bunyard, Robert, Chief Constable; Bellerby, Jules
Date of recording: 1/12/87
Date of broadcast: /12/87
Length of tape: 60 Minutes
Depositor: BBC Essex
Restrictions: BBC
Synopsis of tape: Interview and phone-in; new post as instructor at Bramshill Police College; early career in teaching; changes in policing since joining, eg more technology, less contact with community; changes in Essex population since appointed Deputy Chief Constable in 1977; contrasts in policing different areas; effects of motorways on crime rate; driving standards and suitability of current testing; crimes involving shooting, necessary controls on availability of shotguns; need for 'armed response unit' , investigation into reasons for owning guns; visit to United States, contrasts with situation there, inaccuracy of media portrayal of police, JEREMY BAMBER case in 1986 and effect of resulting criticism on force morale; recent achievements of Essex Police, e.g schools programmes, neighbourhood watch schemes; methods of dealing with emergencies. e.g hijacked Tanzanian Aircraft diverted to Stansted Airport
 
Date From 1987
Date To 1987
 
---------------------------------------------

This is what I was refused access to:

A12928


The Doug Leavett Collection comprising material relating to the history of Tollesbury as detailed below. 1 Photographs and newscuttings re Elysian Gardens, Church Street, Hall Farm, Tollesbury Hall, The Dell and Graces Cottages, Parish Room, recreation ground, Children's Treat organised by Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes 1921, Bohuns Hall (1 ringbinder); photographs and newscuttings re Station Road, Woodrope Road, railway: 'Crab and Winkle Line', Tollesbury Yacht and Boat Building Company, Woo
Repository: Essex Record Office
 
Box 14
File of newspaper cuttings on JEREMY BAMBER, 1985-2002



As these have their own box, it looks as though there may be quite a lot of cuttings

[VORTEX]

How about the national newspaper library London? I was told they hold most things (some on film) or can tell you where to find what you want. I'm amazed at all the talk of this article nobody has a copy - makes me wonder if it ever got published.

[HMEssex]

I also find it hard to believe that there is no copy of this newspaper interview anywhere, although Keira came closest to finding one.  It's referred to all the time in various articles since, in the press.  Someone, somewhere, must have a copy - what about journalists etc?

It's so bizarre that Keira wasn't allowed to photocopy the one she located - is ERO part of the conspiracy?!

[grahameb]

I also find it hard to believe that there is no copy of this newspaper interview anywhere, although Keira came closest to finding one.  It's referred to all the time in various articles since, in the press.  Someone, somewhere, must have a copy - what about journalists etc?

It's so bizarre that Keira wasn't allowed to photocopy the one she located - is ERO part of the conspiracy?!

No, I just think they've forgotten what they are there for.