Finger nail scrapings

[OnceSaid]

It is beyond belief that fingernail scrapings were not taken from Sheila, since there was obvious fingernail marks on Ralph and June.  I would have thought that all the victims would have had fingernail scrapes done as part of normal procedure. 


The existence of a post mortem photograph of Ralph Bamber’s right arm evidencing lacerations caused by finger nails

“ There was loss of skin from the palm of the right hand near the 5th digit. There was a collection of bruises, 3 of which had an approximate linear configuration, covering a distance of approximately 2” x 4” on the ulnar aspect of the right forearm.”

Even to a medically untrained eye the photograph of the right arm of Ralph Neville Bamber shows finger nail marks consistent with the assailant/attacker having gripped the deceased and having lacerated the skin with finger nail marks.

The finger nail lacerations are consistent with a person with finger nails between 5mm-6mm long since the lacerated indentations into the skin are measured.

Amongst the post mortem photographs available to the Jury et al was a post mortem photograph of the arm of June Bamber showing one laceration consistent with a single finger nail indentation into the skin.

Whosoever attacked Ralph Neville Bamber had finger nails at least 5mm-6mm long and certainly no longer but positively not shorter. Had the finger nails been shorter they could not have inflicted the wounds on the right arm and a similar wound on the arm of June Bamber.

There now being the clearest of evidence that not only was there bruising but lacerations consistent with finger nail indentations – similar in shape, form, length, and diameter in both the arm of June Bamber and Ralph Neville Bamber and with the knowledge and submission that the Applicant Jeremy Bamber has always maintained SHORT finger nails

The Prosecuting Authorities failed however, to take any scraping from under her finger nails. The results could indeed have been matched to the finger nail lacerations on the arm of both Ralph Neville Bamber and June Bamber and could either have been proved conclusive and consistent with an attack from Sheila Caffell or exculpatory.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GBoXf__1A4QJ:www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com/downloads/bamber/BAMBERCCRC_addendum_06_06_2004.doc+bamber+2002+appeal&cd=57&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[grahameb]

It is beyond belief that fingernail scrapings were not taken from Sheila, since there was obvious fingernail marks on Ralph and June.  I would have thought that all the victims would have had fingernail scrapes done as part of normal procedure. 


The existence of a post mortem photograph of Ralph Bamber’s right arm evidencing lacerations caused by finger nails

“ There was loss of skin from the palm of the right hand near the 5th digit. There was a collection of bruises, 3 of which had an approximate linear configuration, covering a distance of approximately 2” x 4” on the ulnar aspect of the right forearm.”

Even to a medically untrained eye the photograph of the right arm of Ralph Neville Bamber shows finger nail marks consistent with the assailant/attacker having gripped the deceased and having lacerated the skin with finger nail marks.

The finger nail lacerations are consistent with a person with finger nails between 5mm-6mm long since the lacerated indentations into the skin are measured.

Amongst the post mortem photographs available to the Jury et al was a post mortem photograph of the arm of June Bamber showing one laceration consistent with a single finger nail indentation into the skin.

Whosoever attacked Ralph Neville Bamber had finger nails at least 5mm-6mm long and certainly no longer but positively not shorter. Had the finger nails been shorter they could not have inflicted the wounds on the right arm and a similar wound on the arm of June Bamber.

There now being the clearest of evidence that not only was there bruising but lacerations consistent with finger nail indentations – similar in shape, form, length, and diameter in both the arm of June Bamber and Ralph Neville Bamber and with the knowledge and submission that the Applicant Jeremy Bamber has always maintained SHORT finger nails

The Prosecuting Authorities failed however, to take any scraping from under her finger nails. The results could indeed have been matched to the finger nail lacerations on the arm of both Ralph Neville Bamber and June Bamber and could either have been proved conclusive and consistent with an attack from Sheila Caffell or exculpatory.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GBoXf__1A4QJ:www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com/downloads/bamber/BAMBERCCRC_addendum_06_06_2004.doc+bamber+2002+appeal&cd=57&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Yes the investigation was very shoddy indeed and yes even to the untrained eye. For the life of me I cannot see why the anti Bamber brigade keep trying to make the marks into something they aren't? A woman when she fights automatically uses her nails. A man would not do so. He would use his fists.

[Steve A]

One of the problems with this is that a qualified and experienced pathologist did not, as far as I am aware, attribute the marks to fingernail gouges.

So whilst they may well look like fingernail marks to yourself and indeed to myself, an outside party would no doubt take the pathologists view over my uneducated view every day of the week and rightly so.

Have the defence been able to get a second opinion from a different expert? That would be interesting to see.

[smiffy]

Other pathologists have seen the pictures and attribute the cause as fingernail gouges.

[Steve A]

Other pathologists have seen the pictures and attribute the cause as fingernail gouges.

Have they? I don't disbelieve you, but I'm surprised that the defence haven't made more of this if that is the case.

[smiffy]

Other pathologists have seen the pictures and attribute the cause as fingernail gouges.

Have they? I don't disbelieve you, but I'm surprised that the defence haven't made more of this if that is the case.

It can be hard to find things on this forum...it is documented somewhere or there are links to articles hosted elsewhere that can be found.

Fingernail scrapings may not have revealed anything anyway as it very much seems to be the case that Sheila washed her hands some time after gouging Ralphs arm which would have washed away any evidence.

[grahameb]

Other pathologists have seen the pictures and attribute the cause as fingernail gouges.

Have they? I don't disbelieve you, but I'm surprised that the defence haven't made more of this if that is the case.

Ufortunately and surprisingly the defence didn't do many things that folk thonk they ought to have done?

[Steve A]

Other pathologists have seen the pictures and attribute the cause as fingernail gouges.

Have they? I don't disbelieve you, but I'm surprised that the defence haven't made more of this if that is the case.

It can be hard to find things on this forum...it is documented somewhere or there are links to articles hosted elsewhere that can be found.

Fingernail scrapings may not have revealed anything anyway as it very much seems to be the case that Sheila washed her hands some time after gouging Ralphs arm which would have washed away any evidence.

I'll keep digging then, but if the marks are fingernail gouges, and it can be proven beyond doubt, then that's the smoking gun right there.

On the other hand Vanezis is a highly respected and renowned pathologist, so his findings shouldn't be ignored and it could prove somewhat difficult to discredit his opinion.

[Alias]

It is beyond belief that fingernail scrapings were not taken from Sheila, since there was obvious fingernail marks on Ralph and June.  I would have thought that all the victims would have had fingernail scrapes done as part of normal procedure. 


The existence of a post mortem photograph of Ralph Bamber’s right arm evidencing lacerations caused by finger nails

“ There was loss of skin from the palm of the right hand near the 5th digit. There was a collection of bruises, 3 of which had an approximate linear configuration, covering a distance of approximately 2” x 4” on the ulnar aspect of the right forearm.”

Even to a medically untrained eye the photograph of the right arm of Ralph Neville Bamber shows finger nail marks consistent with the assailant/attacker having gripped the deceased and having lacerated the skin with finger nail marks.

The finger nail lacerations are consistent with a person with finger nails between 5mm-6mm long since the lacerated indentations into the skin are measured.

Amongst the post mortem photographs available to the Jury et al was a post mortem photograph of the arm of June Bamber showing one laceration consistent with a single finger nail indentation into the skin.

Whosoever attacked Ralph Neville Bamber had finger nails at least 5mm-6mm long and certainly no longer but positively not shorter. Had the finger nails been shorter they could not have inflicted the wounds on the right arm and a similar wound on the arm of June Bamber.

There now being the clearest of evidence that not only was there bruising but lacerations consistent with finger nail indentations – similar in shape, form, length, and diameter in both the arm of June Bamber and Ralph Neville Bamber and with the knowledge and submission that the Applicant Jeremy Bamber has always maintained SHORT finger nails

The Prosecuting Authorities failed however, to take any scraping from under her finger nails. The results could indeed have been matched to the finger nail lacerations on the arm of both Ralph Neville Bamber and June Bamber and could either have been proved conclusive and consistent with an attack from Sheila Caffell or exculpatory.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GBoXf__1A4QJ:www.studiolegaleinternazionale.com/downloads/bamber/BAMBERCCRC_addendum_06_06_2004.doc+bamber+2002+appeal&cd=57&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Yes the investigation was very shoddy indeed and yes even to the untrained eye. For the life of me I cannot see why the anti Bamber brigade keep trying to make the marks into something they aren't? A woman when she fights automatically uses her nails. A man would not do so. He would use his fists.

Hi Grahame, I am not a member of the anti Bamber brigade. But I happen not to think the marks on Ralphs arm are from finger nails. I have said this before, and not many pro Bambers agree with me. I have studied the one photo we have of it (which initially was mirrored and turned upside down so it looked like fingernail gouges, but the measuring band gave that away.) I think Ralph was hit and scraped with, likely, the firing end of a rifle or a similar object.
So I agree with Vanezis.

[smiffy]

Other pathologists have seen the pictures and attribute the cause as fingernail gouges.

Have they? I don't disbelieve you, but I'm surprised that the defence haven't made more of this if that is the case.

It can be hard to find things on this forum...it is documented somewhere or there are links to articles hosted elsewhere that can be found.

Fingernail scrapings may not have revealed anything anyway as it very much seems to be the case that Sheila washed her hands some time after gouging Ralphs arm which would have washed away any evidence.

I'll keep digging then, but if the marks are fingernail gouges, and it can be proven beyond doubt, then that's the smoking gun right there.

On the other hand Vanezis is a highly respected and renowned pathologist, so his findings shouldn't be ignored and it could prove somewhat difficult to discredit his opinion.

experts are known to give knowingly false evidence and respect for them is more than it often should be.
fear or favour may be at play in the evidence he gave.

[grahameb]

Sorry Steve I removed you post because it referred to my post that I had already removed because I had posted in the wrong thread. If you get my drift?

[Steve A]

Sorry Steve I removed you post because it referred to my post that I had already removed because I had posted in the wrong thread. If you get my drift?

Haha yes, I'd already removed it myself (or thought I had) as I saw you posted elsewhere.

[Steve A]

experts are known to give knowingly false evidence and respect for them is more than it often should be.
fear or favour may be at play in the evidence he gave.

I understand your point but I'm afraid that's a stretch too far for me. If he gave an opinion then I believe that is what he genuinely thought.
In addition to which his post mortem reports were produced prior to Jeremy being in the frame, so at the time it was still Sheila who was prime suspect, there would be no point in falsifying his report to detract from it being Sheila who was responsible. Unless they were doctored afterwards of course, but I don't believe that either.

[nugnug]

could Ralph have got those scratches before the murders.

[Steve A]

could Ralph have got those scratches before the murders.

Possible I suppose, although I would have expected the wounds to have been dressed if that were the case, particularly given his work. Bandages could have been removed prior to going bed maybe?