Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm

[Adam]

Take your hypothesis about the AM, and let's say for a moment he did call Jeremy, do you believe in those type of cir um stances he wouldn't try to phone him because hed fear he would get his AM?

Lots of reasons why Nevill wouldn't try to phone him.

Being over 3 miles away at 3.00am with an AM being a few.

Supporters say Nevill had already called Chelmsford Police so another reason he would not call Jeremy.

[Rob_]

We both believe NB made the phone call to JB.  The totality of the soc evidence shows NB then dropped the handset on the counter and went upstairs where he sustained his two facial gunshot wounds on the landing.
Meanwhile JB disconnected the call his end to make the call to EP.  Expert evidence at trial:

There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by Jeremy. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, Jeremy would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.

The line at WHF was open but not engaged.  I have uploaded the GPO op's WS from Jean Rowe.  Nowhere in the WS does she refer to the line engaged.  It was not engaged.  The line was open thus allowing her to listen in and put the open line through to EP.

There was no phone call from NB to EP or from WHF to 999.  The last call made from WHF before the police entered was NB to JB.

Thanks Cc though I have read this many times.

What is not 100% clear is if Nevil rings JB then rushes upstairs leaving the phone on the table how long it would take for the line to time out and become off the hook. If you pick up a phone and do nothing it's just a few minutes if that, not so sure about a live call?

Also until the line times out JB cannot ring out, replacing his phone does not clear the line.

[Zoso]

Thanks Cc though I have read this many times.

What is not 100% clear is if Nevil rings JB then rushes upstairs leaving the phone on the table how long it would take for the line to time out and become off the hook. If you pick up a phone and do nothing it's just a few minutes if that, not so sure about a live call?

Also until the line times out JB cannot ring out, replacing his phone does not clear the line.

The BT operators statement matches exactly with the logs. I'm not looking at this from a perspective of Neville having made a call, just Jeremy leaving it off the hook before he left. Your last sentence is kind of a big clue that there was never any call.

[Armchair Detective]

We both believe NB made the phone call to JB.  The totality of the soc evidence shows NB then dropped the handset on the counter and went upstairs where he sustained his two facial gunshot wounds on the landing.
Meanwhile JB disconnected the call his end to make the call to EP.  Expert evidence at trial:

There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by Jeremy. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, Jeremy would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.

The line at WHF was open but not engaged.  I have uploaded the GPO op's WS from Jean Rowe.  Nowhere in the WS does she refer to the line engaged.  It was not engaged.  The line was open thus allowing her to listen in and put the open line through to EP.

There was no phone call from NB to EP or from WHF to 999.  The last call made from WHF before the police entered was NB to JB.

Correct me if I am wrong but this evidence was adduced at trial to counter JB's claims that he tried to call his father back straight away. JB did not say that he had replaced the handset for 1-2 minutes before calling and getting an engaged tone.

[Adam]

Poor Jeremy. Needed a good nights sleep after still being at WHF at 9.00pm. But was woken at 3.10am.

But Nevill and June could not restrain Sheila. The only option now was to ring Jeremy.

That went well.

[Bubo bubo]

Thanks Cc though I have read this many times.

What is not 100% clear is if Nevil rings JB then rushes upstairs leaving the phone on the table how long it would take for the line to time out and become off the hook. If you pick up a phone and do nothing it's just a few minutes if that, not so sure about a live call?

Also until the line times out JB cannot ring out, replacing his phone does not clear the line.

If JB closed his line before redialling the Off hook would come into force including the howler at the set time (unknown). If he then redialled he would get an engaged  signal but the operator would have a light and noise alerting her to the off the hook status.

JB would be able to make calls once the set time had been reached. As he said he tried to phone again. His line would become operable because users would not be able to use their phones if they had to wait for the offending number to be restarted. This would be the same for anyone who was faced with a phone off the hook for any reason including not replacing the receiver correctly.

[ILB]

Lots of reasons why Nevill wouldn't try to phone him.

Being over 3 miles away at 3.00am with an AM being a few.

Supporters say Nevill had already called Chelmsford Police so another reason he would not call Jeremy.

 Nevill would not think to himself under any circumstances " Heavens I must not ring my son for assistance as at Xmas 84 he got the new Panasonic AM "

[Adam]

Nevill would not think to himself under any circumstances " Heavens I must not ring my son for assistance as at Xmas 84 he got the new Panasonic AM "

Disagree with that. No point ringing someone ay 3.00am in an emergency. He will be sleeping & the AM will come on

Do you think Nevill phoned Chelmsford Police before Jeremy?

Supporters are saying Nevill & Jeremy spoke to West. West rang Bonnet on both occasions. However only 2 phone logs exist rather than 4.

[Steve_uk]

Nevill would not think to himself under any circumstances " Heavens I must not ring my son for assistance as at Xmas 84 he got the new Panasonic AM "

No, but he might have wondered first how his son could ameliorate the situation.

[ILB]

Disagree with that. No point ringing someone ay 3.00am in an emergency. He will be sleeping & the AM will come on

Do you think Nevill phoned Chelmsford Police before Jeremy?

Supporters are saying Nevill & Jeremy spoke to West. West rang Bonnet on both occasions. However only 2 phone logs exist rather than 4.

This will probably turn into a back and forth but how can you think in such a circumstance logically Jeremy's AM would be at the forefront of Nevills mind in such a scenario?

And who in the history of the mankind doesn't make a call under any circumstances because " I'll get they're AM"

[ILB]

No, but he might have wondered first how his son could ameliorate the situation.

I've expressed my views on the AM, and I believe it was not damaging to Jeremy and it seems EP shared my sentiment as it never featured once in the case.

It's not an oversight, he lived in a small cottage and the coppers were in and out of bourtree in the immediate aftermath.  If they thought they could have used it to his detriment they would have.

[ILB]

Don't believe Nevill knew or cared about Jeremy's AM.

[Adam]

Don't believe Nevill knew or cared about Jeremy's AM.

Didn't know about it? Jeremy worked for him 

May not have cared about it.

[Adam]

This will probably turn into a back and forth but how can you think in such a circumstance logically Jeremy's AM would be at the forefront of Nevills mind in such a scenario?

And who in the history of the mankind doesn't make a call under any circumstances because " I'll get they're AM"

People who want to speak to someone?

[ILB]

No, but he might have wondered first how his son could ameliorate the situation.

That's a fair point and it has to be said Jeremy and Shelia had a poor relationship.

Accounts are Nevill and Shelia had a very close one.