US-Israel Attacks Iran

[snow66!]

    Surely you can see it is already one sided, snow. Palestinians have been denied statehood and land envisioned as part of a Palestinian state has been systematically occupied by armed European, so called settlers, for decades. Western countries who created Israel and fund it to the tune of billions annually cannot be considered neutral brokers.
     The Greater Israel project, which includes chunks of all neighbouring Arab countries, isn't even denied anymore. This, more than anything, demonstrates clearly that the Zionists have at no time negotiated in good faith.

OK, thanks,gringo!

[snow66!]

Listen and learn, the lot of you. https://youtu.be/76NytvQAIs0


https://youtu.be/-_om8G7tTGo

Thanks, Steve, thats the kind of videos i've been watching!
But are we being naively drawn in to a false narrative?
Gringo seems to think so! He thinks we're only concentrating on one side of the story, sort of 'a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing' as it were!
Sure there was problems with the Clinton deal, there's problems with any complicated deal, or does it boil down in part to the ladies claim in your video that the middle east/Arabs simply wont accept a Jewish/Zionist state on religious grounds or such?

[Steve_uk]

    Surely you can see it is already one sided, snow. Palestinians have been denied statehood and land envisioned as part of a Palestinian state has been systematically occupied by armed European, so called settlers, for decades. Western countries who created Israel and fund it to the tune of billions annually cannot be considered neutral brokers.
     The Greater Israel project, which includes chunks of all neighbouring Arab countries, isn't even denied anymore. This, more than anything, demonstrates clearly that the Zionists have at no time negotiated in good faith.

They wouldn't have withdrawn from Gaza in 2005 if that were the case, nor returned the Sinai to Egypt in 1982.

[David1819]

Thanks, Steve, thats the kind of videos i've been watching!
But are we being naively drawn in to a false narrative?
Gringo seems to think so! He thinks we're only concentrating on one side of the story, sort of 'a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing' as it were!
Sure there was problems with the Clinton deal, there's problems with any complicated deal, or does it boil down in part to the ladies claim in your video that the middle east/Arabs simply wont accept a Jewish/Zionist state on religious grounds or such?

Pretty much. If you look at all the countries that have never recoqnised Israel nor accept Israeli passports. Their faith is a common denominator.

[Steve_uk]

Thanks, Steve, thats the kind of videos i've been watching!
But are we being naively drawn in to a false narrative?
Gringo seems to think so! He thinks we're only concentrating on one side of the story, sort of 'a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing' as it were!
Sure there was problems with the Clinton deal, there's problems with any complicated deal, or does it boil down in part to the ladies claim in your video that the middle east/Arabs simply wont accept a Jewish/Zionist state on religious grounds or such?

Israel has been at war since 1948. It doesn't represent a threat to its neighbours unless its own territory is attacked, a territory established by the United Nations through Resolution 181.

[Cambridgecutie]

Israel has been at war since 1948. It doesn't represent a threat to its neighbours unless its own territory is attacked, a territory established by the United Nations through Resolution 181.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/ohchr-report-on-israeli-settlements-in-the-occupied-palestinian-territory-including-east-jerusalem-and-in-the-occupied-syrian-golan-a-hrc-61-70/#:~:text=47.,assistance%20in%20maintaining%20that%20situation.

47. The systematic failure by Israel to prevent or punish settler attacks was a key driver of the worsening coercive environment of violence, discrimination and oppression. The failure of Israeli security forces to act in relation to, and the apparent involvement of its officials in, settler violence amounts to a violation of the obligations of Israel as an occupying Power to protect the inhabitants of the occupied territory from all acts and threats of violence and to ensure public order and safety.

48. Further to the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice of 19 July 2024, the continuing presence of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory is unlawful, and Israel must withdraw from the territory as rapidly as possible. It must cease immediately all new settlement activities and evacuate all settlers. As indicated by the International Court of Justice, States are under an obligation not to recognize as legal the situation arising from the unlawful presence of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and not to render aid or assistance in maintaining that situation.

[gringo]

Israel has been at war since 1948. It doesn't represent a threat to its neighbours unless its own territory is attacked, a territory established by the United Nations through Resolution 181.

   Zionist terror gangs (Haganah, Irgun, Stern Gang, Lehi) were waging war in Palestine from the 1920's onwards. Zionist terror gangs were responsible for the first bus bombing, cafe bombing, first hostage taking plus many other notable "firsts". The leader of the Haganah (Zionist terror group founded 1920-note the date) was David Ben Gurion. I'm sure that you have heard of him, Israel's first PM and has an airport named after him. These Zionist terror gangs were European Ashkenazi Jews. The descendants of the biblical Jews already lived in Palestine. It was European interlopers that introduced terrorism to Palestine as an undisputed fact.

    "At a meeting of Haganah leaders in Tel Aviv in March, 1948, and with Ben-Gurion present, it was decided to draw up a comprehensive plan for ethnic cleansing, known as “Plan Dalet”, according to which numerous massacres were carried out to terrorize the Palestinian civilian population and to drive them out of their homeland. Some massacres were carried out before the creation of the Israeli army, as in the Tantura massacre, a village south of Haifa, on 22 and 23 May, 1948, which resulted in the killing of more than 200 Palestinian men and women. Others were committed after that army was formed, as in the village of al-Dawaymah in the al-Khalil (Hebron) district, on October 29, 1948, where hundreds of Palestinian men and women were killed."

      The Haganah on the Israeli declaration of statehood became the IDF. Israel is a terrorist state, born from terror and surviving on terror ever since.

[snow66!]

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/ohchr-report-on-israeli-settlements-in-the-occupied-palestinian-territory-including-east-jerusalem-and-in-the-occupied-syrian-golan-a-hrc-61-70/#:~:text=47.,assistance%20in%20maintaining%20that%20situation.

47. The systematic failure by Israel to prevent or punish settler attacks was a key driver of the worsening coercive environment of violence, discrimination and oppression. The failure of Israeli security forces to act in relation to, and the apparent involvement of its officials in, settler violence amounts to a violation of the obligations of Israel as an occupying Power to protect the inhabitants of the occupied territory from all acts and threats of violence and to ensure public order and safety.

48. Further to the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice of 19 July 2024, the continuing presence of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory is unlawful, and Israel must withdraw from the territory as rapidly as possible. It must cease immediately all new settlement activities and evacuate all settlers. As indicated by the International Court of Justice, States are under an obligation not to recognize as legal the situation arising from the unlawful presence of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and not to render aid or assistance in maintaining that situation.

Yes, but I suppose it could be argued that the Palestinians had several chances to get a deal [as detailed in Steve's video] and then the settler issue would not have existed, Cutie?

[Cambridgecutie]

Yes, but I suppose it could be argued that the Palestinians had several chances to get a deal [as detailed in Steve's video] and then the settler issue would not have existed, Cutie?

I haven't watched the vids yet! 

[gringo]

Thanks, Steve, thats the kind of videos i've been watching!
But are we being naively drawn in to a false narrative?
Gringo seems to think so! He thinks we're only concentrating on one side of the story, sort of 'a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing' as it were!
Sure there was problems with the Clinton deal, there's problems with any complicated deal, or does it boil down in part to the ladies claim in your video that the middle east/Arabs simply wont accept a Jewish/Zionist state on religious grounds or such?

    Israeli aggression over the years against civilian populations makes clear that it is Israel, enabled by their western sponsors, who won't accept a Palestinian state. It needs to be remembered that the Palestinians were already there and had been for generations. Terror gangs for decades before 1948 had been ethnically cleansing and massacring whole towns and villages of Palestinians. Those terror gangs came from Eastern Europe, predominantly. The leader of one of those terrorist groups became first PM and his terrorist group became the official army of this new declared state of Israel on Arab land by Europeans.
    Since then, Israel has refused to declare its borders and has expanded onto land designated to be Palestinian in any supposed "2 state solution". The expansion of these so called "settlements" by literally stealing land and forcing the inhabitants off with IDF (Haganah) backing demonstrates more clearly than anything that Israel have never had any intention of allowing a Palestinian state. The painting of Palestinians as aggressors against the poor Israelis is the greatest con ever pulled. Kind of like the old "Cowboy and Indian" films portrayed as they were, with the noble cowboys defeating the aggressive savages. We didn't realise then that they were literally celebrating the genocide of Native Americans by colonising aggressive and expansionist European "settlers".
     We have less excuse this time whilst watching a replay in real time.

[snow66!]

I haven't watched the vids yet!

You should, Cutie, wont take you long, they are quite short videos!

[gringo]

Yes, but I suppose it could be argued that the Palestinians had several chances to get a deal [as detailed in Steve's video] and then the settler issue would not have existed, Cutie?

    The "details" in Steve's video are wholly context free, deliberately biased and dishonest interpretations of the so called deals they discuss. If you want details, snow, then look up the transcripts of these deals and the discussions around them. You won't find that in a short you-tube video that isn't even pretending to be balanced. The settler issue has been going on since 1920 , has never stopped and has expanded. It doesn't start in 1948, snow, that is a false narrative.

[snow66!]

    The "details" in Steve's video are wholly context free, deliberately biased and dishonest interpretations of the so called deals they discuss. If you want details, snow, then look up the transcripts of these deals and the discussions around them. You won't find that in a short you-tube video that isn't even pretending to be balanced. The settler issue has been going on since 1920 , has never stopped and has expanded. It doesn't start in 1948, snow, that is a false narrative.

OK, thanks ,gringo! Seems like i'll have to do a lot more homework on Palestine!
But basically, you are convinced that the Zionists/Israelis have always been the baddies?

[gringo]

OK, thanks ,gringo! Seems like i'll have to do a lot more homework on Palestine!
But basically, you are convinced that the Zionists/Israelis have always been the baddies?

   Most of the world population is convinced the Zionists are "baddies", snow, largely based on their own history of terrorism and genocide.

[gringo]

OK, thanks ,gringo! Seems like i'll have to do a lot more homework on Palestine!
But basically, you are convinced that the Zionists/Israelis have always been the baddies?

    In retrospect snow, I'm sure that you recognise that in the old "Cowboy and Indian" films we made heroes of the wrong side and turned the victims into aggressors. In the terminology you use, we all now recognise that the European settlers(Cowboys) were the baddies and the Native Americans (telling that they were referred to as Indians and not Native Americans) were the goodies. The narratives we were fed and still are, reverse those designations of goodie/baddie.
     And today, the Israelis/Zionists are the Cowboys and the Palestinians are the "Indians".