Author Topic: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)  (Read 31597 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #165 on: February 02, 2026, 10:50:PM »
There are men and *women who prey on children.  The statistics show men far outweigh women.

For anyone to formally diagnose LB suffering from a personality disorder they would need to be properly qualified and meet with her to undertake an assessment and since this didn't happen your sources are meaningless. 

Consider the Jeffrey Epstein case.  Even when he was convicted of child sex offending, serial rape and human trafficking, the so-called great and the good were happy to turn a blind eye and continue to fawn all over him for all sorts of favours. 

When have I ever displayed any "extreme feminism"?  I believe RB murdered his family and committed suicide because LB revealed he had been sexually abusing her. DB was spared because he was not party to the revelation having gone to bed early in preparation for his early start.  That's my belief based on my perception of the evidence.  That's not feminism. 

*https://www.rosebudpodcast.co.uk/archive/charles-spencer
Let me spell it out for you: David Bain was the most damaged by the years in the Waigani compound in Papua New Guinea. He found it difficult to adjust upon return to Dunedin, which must have seemed like a different planet to him. Affected by the constant poison dripped into his ears by his mother, Margaret regarding Robin he took over as nominal head of the household. He would enter his siblings' rooms at will with a gun and pretend to shoot on more than one occasion. In his own bedroom he had a card on which he had drawn five circles, which he used as target practice. The circles correspond roughly to the rooms where the victims died. Note: five circles, none for where David's room might be located.

On the counterspin.nz website, which has now been removed, there are allegations that David told a couple of his mates that a paper round would be a good pretext on which to rape a girl. He told his girlfriend at the time that he feared something bad was going to happen, a portent of doom only days before the tragedy.

Margaret was making plans to leave the house and move into a unit with Stephen in town. Arawa, who was the star of the family, had become Head Girl at school and was at teacher training college would not have stayed in that filthy house ( note it was Arawa who was the success story and Robin would never have killed her, let alone written a message which had David as preference over her). As for Laniet, she had tried her hand at prostitution, with Dean Cottle as her pimp. It turned out she wasn't up to the job, but she had moved out of the house at the time of the killing and it was David who forced her back that weekend under the pretext of bible study and family gathering. David, like Jeremy Bamber before him, seized the opportunity whilst the family was under one roof.

David had crashed a powerful Kawasaki motorbike he was test driving six weeks before the murder. When the insurance was paid it left him $2000 in debt, which his parents refused to cover. This may have been the trigger, just as Jeremy Bamber had had an accident involving his Vauxhall Astra and was in hock to Nevill for a similar amount.

David killed his mother with one shot outright. He proceeded to his brother's room, where Stephen had awoken and managed to deflect the first shot with his hand, where the bullet shot from the silencer hit. There was masses of blood. David, enraged, strangled Stephen with his own T-shirt, then fired a second bullet into the top of his head. Between the first and second shot a bullet got stuck in the breech and David had to remove his opera gloves to dislodge with his finger. Stephen had managed to scratch the assailant's face and grasp a few of David's green jersey fibres before death.

David moved to Laniet's room. He shot her once, thinking that was sufficient, then proceeded to Arawa's room. She may have heard the commotion with Stephen and was awake. The first shot missed her from outside the bead curtain and lodged into the wall. By that stage Arawa knew she was going to die, and knelt in a prayer position begging for her life. David shot her once in the head.

In the corridor he heard Laniet gurgling and moved back into her room. He finished her off with his trademark shot to the top of the head.

He then proceeded to put the bloodied clothing in the washing machine, before undertaking the paper round.

He waited behind the alcove for Robin, who was a creature of habit. This is the missing twenty minutes, the computer switched on a 06:44am, yet police not called until 07:10am.

A friend of Robin post-mortem said due to his religious leanings had he committed the murders he would have written a note of biblical proportions, not one solitary line. He would have put pen to paper, not typed a message, but of course, the authorship of the words belonged not to the father, but to the son.

David knows deep down he is guilty. He told a supporter in a letter after the first trial: "The judge was very kind to me during the trial...seeming to see the pain I was going through." Whilst not a confession, it is an admission, given that upon sentencing the judge told him he had "acted with a significant degree of cunning and premeditation." It indicates David Bain thought he had been given a fair trial.

Of course, once Joe Karam stuck his nose in David was going to take full advantage.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2026, 10:56:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #166 on: February 03, 2026, 12:49:PM »
Let me spell it out for you: David Bain was the most damaged by the years in the Waigani compound in Papua New Guinea. He found it difficult to adjust upon return to Dunedin, which must have seemed like a different planet to him. Affected by the constant poison dripped into his ears by his mother, Margaret regarding Robin he took over as nominal head of the household. He would enter his siblings' rooms at will with a gun and pretend to shoot on more than one occasion. In his own bedroom he had a card on which he had drawn five circles, which he used as target practice. The circles correspond roughly to the rooms where the victims died. Note: five circles, none for where David's room might be located.

On the counterspin.nz website, which has now been removed, there are allegations that David told a couple of his mates that a paper round would be a good pretext on which to rape a girl. He told his girlfriend at the time that he feared something bad was going to happen, a portent of doom only days before the tragedy.

Margaret was making plans to leave the house and move into a unit with Stephen in town. Arawa, who was the star of the family, had become Head Girl at school and was at teacher training college would not have stayed in that filthy house ( note it was Arawa who was the success story and Robin would never have killed her, let alone written a message which had David as preference over her). As for Laniet, she had tried her hand at prostitution, with Dean Cottle as her pimp. It turned out she wasn't up to the job, but she had moved out of the house at the time of the killing and it was David who forced her back that weekend under the pretext of bible study and family gathering. David, like Jeremy Bamber before him, seized the opportunity whilst the family was under one roof.

David had crashed a powerful Kawasaki motorbike he was test driving six weeks before the murder. When the insurance was paid it left him $2000 in debt, which his parents refused to cover. This may have been the trigger, just as Jeremy Bamber had had an accident involving his Vauxhall Astra and was in hock to Nevill for a similar amount.

David killed his mother with one shot outright. He proceeded to his brother's room, where Stephen had awoken and managed to deflect the first shot with his hand, where the bullet shot from the silencer hit. There was masses of blood. David, enraged, strangled Stephen with his own T-shirt, then fired a second bullet into the top of his head. Between the first and second shot a bullet got stuck in the breech and David had to remove his opera gloves to dislodge with his finger. Stephen had managed to scratch the assailant's face and grasp a few of David's green jersey fibres before death.

David moved to Laniet's room. He shot her once, thinking that was sufficient, then proceeded to Arawa's room. She may have heard the commotion with Stephen and was awake. The first shot missed her from outside the bead curtain and lodged into the wall. By that stage Arawa knew she was going to die, and knelt in a prayer position begging for her life. David shot her once in the head.

In the corridor he heard Laniet gurgling and moved back into her room. He finished her off with his trademark shot to the top of the head.

He then proceeded to put the bloodied clothing in the washing machine, before undertaking the paper round.

He waited behind the alcove for Robin, who was a creature of habit. This is the missing twenty minutes, the computer switched on a 06:44am, yet police not called until 07:10am.

A friend of Robin post-mortem said due to his religious leanings had he committed the murders he would have written a note of biblical proportions, not one solitary line. He would have put pen to paper, not typed a message, but of course, the authorship of the words belonged not to the father, but to the son.

David knows deep down he is guilty. He told a supporter in a letter after the first trial: "The judge was very kind to me during the trial...seeming to see the pain I was going through." Whilst not a confession, it is an admission, given that upon sentencing the judge told him he had "acted with a significant degree of cunning and premeditation." It indicates David Bain thought he had been given a fair trial.

Of course, once Joe Karam stuck his nose in David was going to take full advantage.

And you accuse LB of being a "fantasist"  ::) 

You are either unable or unwilling to study the evidence DB was convicted on at his first trial and contrast it to the evidence presented at his retrial where he was rightfully acquitted. 

You are more concerned with maintaining the status quo by attempting to protect the patriach, who in reality was a pathetic individual in every respect, and upholding Christianity by attemtping to cover up child sex abuse and suicide both of which are against the teachings of the bible. 

Judges are human.  They will have their own personal views and interpretation of the trial.  Judges' sentencing remarks reflect verdicts returned by jurors not their own personal views.  The police and lawyers always say they never know how it is going to go until a verdict is reached.  Why would it be any different for judges?  The judge may well have been shocked by the verdict and expected an acquittal hence your quote above.

May I ask what you teach and to which age range?  My guess is that it will be the humanities, possibly religious education, to an age range where you are not going to be particularly challenged.
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

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Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #167 on: February 03, 2026, 01:02:PM »
There's no physical evidence that Nevill was on the phone. What does she mean? I recall bloodied fingerprints on the blue and white chequered worktop, but no blood on the telephone itself.

There is physical evidence NB was on the phone to JB.  The fact you and others are unable/unwilling to reconstruct a mountain of physcial evidence to support this does not mean that soc reconstruction experts are unable to do so and put together a very compelling case that supports JB's claim of a tel call from NB.

As it stands the court at trial was told by Malcolm Fletcher that the adult victims sustained all their upstairs gunshot wounds in the bedroom.  This was accpeted by Ed Lawson QC when it needed to be challenged based on all the physcial evidence.  NB did not sustain his upstairs gunshot wounds in the bedroom.  He sustained them on the landing and stairs whilst the perp, SC, was already in the bedroom having shot June before shooting out onto the landing at NB.  This has been explained over and over again. 
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
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Offline handymanz

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #168 on: February 06, 2026, 03:16:AM »
At the time of the Bain murders there was a high-level pedophile network operating in Dunedin.
With some connections to the Presbyterian Church in which Robin & Margaret Bain were involved with.
 
There is info out there but a major published work about it all is now difficult to find, because it keeps on being taken down from the internet.
The Police seemed over keen to make it an open & shut case, culminating in the burning down of the Bains house.
Pat Brown herself made a big deal about the rifle being fired by someone wearing gloves.
I'll post any decent links that I can find about it.

Edit : Here's a link giving a broad outline.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/dunedin-church-appoints-kc-to-investigate-paedophile-ring/

I've managed to dig this up. I remember now that it was Ian Wishart from investigate magazine who broke the story about the Bain murders conveniently covering up a Dunedin paedophile network.

Scroll down about halfway to pick up the quoted text below.
https://theoutdoorphonestore.com/13956/to-serve-protect-june-07/#:~:text=In%20fact%20even%20in%20the,book%20%5BCover%2Dups%20%26%20Cop%2Douts%5D%20I&text=The%20officer%20in%20charge%20of,Bain%20murders%20was%20Milton%20Weir.

Quote
Which brings us to yet another twist in this increasingly serious story: in late 1993, perhaps early 1994, Bayfield High School dropout Laniet Bain began working part time at the Reflections massage parlour. She would have been aged just 17. It is extremely likely that part of her “initiation” involved being forced to have sex with Dunedin police officers. And one of those officers was quite likely Detective Sergeant Milton Weir – the man who later controversially spearheaded the Bain family murder investigation and allegedly planted evidence to implicate David Bain.
In a statement dictated to Colin Withnall QC in his presence but left unsigned amid fears for her life, Dunedin woman Susan Sutton recounts a conversation where one of her friends told her about Milton Weir’s behaviour.
“Joyce has also told me about what Milton used to do when he was in the squad that was in charge of the Dunedin massage parlours. She said he would insist on having sex with the new young girls at the parlours as a perk of the job, and that Jack and Winnie Ingersoll would arrange it for him.
“Also, some of the girls who were under age or had a drug conviction and accordingly weren’t allowed to work in the parlour would be allowed to work in parlours provided that they gave Weir free sex, not only for him but for his mates.”
Let that sink in for a moment. Susan Sutton’s statement confirms what Investigate had already heard from Megan. But there’s even more corroboration – Megan doesn’t know either Sutton or her friend Joyce Conwell (aka Joyce Blondell); she’d already quit the parlours to work as a private escort before their time there.
Were senior Dunedin police officers sexual clients of underage prostitute Laniet Bain? Did that have a bearing on how the police conducted their investigation into the Bain homicides of June 20, 1994?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2026, 03:17:AM by handyman »

Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #169 on: February 08, 2026, 09:14:AM »
I've managed to dig this up. I remember now that it was Ian Wishart from investigate magazine who broke the story about the Bain murders conveniently covering up a Dunedin paedophile network.

Scroll down about halfway to pick up the quoted text below.
https://theoutdoorphonestore.com/13956/to-serve-protect-june-07/#:~:text=In%20fact%20even%20in%20the,book%20%5BCover%2Dups%20%26%20Cop%2Douts%5D%20I&text=The%20officer%20in%20charge%20of,Bain%20murders%20was%20Milton%20Weir.

Thanks.  But exactly how would this result in the murder/suicide of RB, MB, AB, LB and SB?

I think in these cases you always get fanciful conspiracies/theories about individuals/organisations.  In the Bamber case its the intelligence sevices connected to NB's days as a fighter pilot in WW2.  In reality both cases are simple:

June Bamber was a totally unsuitable adoptive mother due to her own long history of mental illness before either SC or JB were conceived.  Despite this she was approved to adopt; a recipe for disaster.  Around 2 years after adopting SC, June required in-patient psychiatric care due to severe depression caused by her decision to adopt.  Modern day neuroscience shows how damanging is it for babies/toddlers to be in the care of 'primary caregivers' who are suffering from depression let alone severe depression resulting in in-patient psychiatric care.  The June/SC relationship was highly dysfunctional culminating in SC first shooting June before turning the rifle on NB, the twins and herself.

The Bain family was also highly dysfunctional.  RB turned into a pathetic individual: living in a filthy caravan, unable to maintain even personal hygiene and manage a low level teaching position at elementary level. But much worse than this he started to sexually abuse his youngest daughter.  On the night of the murders LB revealed to her family what had been going on.  The only member not around was DB as he had retired to his bed/room for an early start due to his paper round hence he was spared.

The wider family, police, judiciary, media etc are unaware of the level of dysfunction so alternative motives are looked for ergo DB and JB end up carrying the can.  Bear in mind DB was convicted in 1995 and JB 1986.  The world was a very different place then with bias shown towards the patriarch and matriarch especially when the parents are perceived to be law abiding, middle class, pillars of the community and God-fearing.  Today we, or most of us, are far more enlightened.  We hear pretty much on a daily basis about these type of people being anything but what they claim to be.  Here's a classic example: a married vet, teacher and summer camp leader who used the "cloak of Christianity" to carry out the most abhorrent crimes imaginable:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj0n5162dv8o
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Offline handymanz

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #170 on: February 08, 2026, 08:54:PM »
Quote
The Bain family was also highly dysfunctional.  RB turned into a pathetic individual: living in a filthy caravan, unable to maintain even personal hygiene and manage a low level teaching position at elementary level. But much worse than this he started to sexually abuse his youngest daughter.  On the night of the murders LB revealed to her family what had been going on.  The only member not around was DB as he had retired to his bed/room for an early start due to his paper round hence he was spared.

The above is about as good an analysis that there is based on the scene of the crime.
It was some time after DB's conviction that stories started to circulate about Robin abusing LB.
The police investigating for whatever reason decided to not investigate any motive for RB, which makes me think a decision was made to cover it up because of the wider implications about what was going on between RB & LB.

DB ends up getting convicted because he's portrayed as being a bit weird a 22yr. old doing a paper round who likes wearing loud colourful pullovers, along with whoever fired the rifle was wearing gloves.

There is a long history in NZ of covering up serious sexual offending from Police Officers. Theres the recent case of the Deputy Commissioner losing his job for sexual harassment and viewing kiddy porn, that was also covered up for a while.


 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2026, 08:58:PM by handyman »

Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #171 on: February 10, 2026, 10:21:AM »
The above is about as good an analysis that there is based on the scene of the crime.
It was some time after DB's conviction that stories started to circulate about Robin abusing LB.
The police investigating for whatever reason decided to not investigate any motive for RB, which makes me think a decision was made to cover it up because of the wider implications about what was going on between RB & LB.

DB ends up getting convicted because he's portrayed as being a bit weird a 22yr. old doing a paper round who likes wearing loud colourful pullovers,along with whoever fired the rifle was wearing gloves.

There is a long history in NZ of covering up serious sexual offending from Police Officers. Theres the recent case of the Deputy Commissioner losing his job for sexual harassment and viewing kiddy porn, that was also covered up for a while.

I did look into the Bain case in some detail years ago on the so-called Red forum aka UK Justice Forum:

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8397.0

I think there was also another thread which was archived.

The Bamber case features a similar aspect regarding fingerprints/gloves.  Many years ago I was in communication with an expert in fingerprints:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bond_(physicist)

I learned from him that some surfaces are very difficult to recover latent fingerprints from, firearms being one such surface.  The reason for this is due to the coating on firearms and the uneven surfaces.  It then comes down to statistics ie the more a firearm is handled by someone the greater the chance of leaving indelible fingerprints.  In the case of JB and DB there would be a much greater chance of finding a fingerprint than from the perpertrators, SC and RB, because they were handling the firearm regularly for legitimate reasons.

In JB's case one fingerprint was found from him and one from SC.  You would expect to find one fingerprint from JB given the legitimate extent of handling but statistically you would not expect to find one from SC unless she handled the rifle extensively which of course she did when she fired at least 25 shots to kill her family and take her own life.

In DB's case far fewer shots were fired, around 9 if I remember correctly, than in JB's case (25 shots) meaning SC handled the rifle far more extensively than RB. 

Only the uninformed would suggest the lack of fingerprints on the rifle holds any signficance. 
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Offline handymanz

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #172 on: February 11, 2026, 09:29:AM »
Quote
I did look into the Bain case in some detail years ago on the so-called Red forum aka UK Justice Forum:

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8397.0

Some interesting links there. I'm trying to work out where Pat Brown got her theory from, about the killer wearing gloves. Maybe old-fashioned policing find a suspect first then collect any evidence that fits LOL.

Back in the day there was another theory going around that DB had a violent confrontation with RB when he returned home, angry at Robin for carrying out the killings.

Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #173 on: February 13, 2026, 06:41:PM »
Some interesting links there. I'm trying to work out where Pat Brown got her theory from, about the killer wearing gloves. Maybe old-fashioned policing find a suspect first then collect any evidence that fits LOL.

Back in the day there was another theory going around that DB had a violent confrontation with RB when he returned home, angry at Robin for carrying out the killings.

I think the 80/20 rule probably applies: 80% bs and 20% fact

Pat Brown is a complete non-entity as far as I am concerned.  Fair enough if she was just putting herself out there as a true crime buff but the fact she attempts to deceive on the basis she's some sort of professional with relevant qualifications I find irritating.  To my mind she is so obviously a fake.  I don't understand how anyone can take her seriously.  Just a stereotypical American: loud!  She epitomises all the reasons I wouldn't try a cruise holiday for fear of being surrounded by people like her and unable to escape!
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Offline handymanz

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #174 on: February 18, 2026, 01:56:AM »
It looks as though the Counterspin team are taking a renewed interest in the Bain family murders.
At the 15-minute mark the book titled "Coverups & Copouts" gets a plug.
Then at the end at the 2 hour and 2-minute mark mention is made about the mysterious burning down of the Bain family home.

It's a difficult watch for none NZers (and some would say for NZers too)

https://rumble.com/v75vzoi-s5e3-raw-unfiltered-and-uncut.html
« Last Edit: February 18, 2026, 02:17:AM by handyman »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #175 on: February 18, 2026, 02:36:PM »
It looks as though the Counterspin team are taking a renewed interest in the Bain family murders.
At the 15-minute mark the book titled "Coverups & Copouts" gets a plug.
Then at the end at the 2 hour and 2-minute mark mention is made about the mysterious burning down of the Bain family home.

It's a difficult watch for none NZers (and some would say for NZers too)

https://rumble.com/v75vzoi-s5e3-raw-unfiltered-and-uncut.html
I don't see how the book Coverups & copouts has any bearing on David Bain's innocence or guilt.