Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)

[handymanz]

You would have to imagine a scenario where Robin was spying on his son, checking his movements that morning. I don't think it's likely.

Getting up out of bed and waiting for your son to get out of the house to carry out his usual paper round, is hardly spying.
Like I've already said I'm not convinced it was either David or Robin. Just more likely it was Robin and not David.

[Steve_uk]

Here's a more pleasant story for Kiwis handyman: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/other/watch-schoolboy-smashes-world-record-for-fastest-mile-by-junior-athlete/ar-AA1VqN5T?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=6980cec9b31e470bb7cab779d6f5e742&ei=18&cvpid=6980cf855e5f42178d65597f61a3fbb4

[Rob_]

Getting up out of bed and waiting for your son to get out of the house to carry out his usual paper round, is hardly spying.
Like I've already said I'm not convinced it was either David or Robin. Just more likely it was Robin and not David.

Someone was seen leaving the house around the time of the tragedy not David or Robin.

I am perplexed that Steve simply disregards evidence because he thinks he has got his man? You can convict anyone on that basis how can any jury come to a fair decision if certain evidence is withheld?   

[Cambridgecutie]

I stand corrected that the blood speck was invisible to the naked eye. How did it get there?

Either the struggle with SB or when he committed suicide.

Laniet was a fantasist. Psychologists who have studied the case assign to her a histrionic personality. The claim of incest is her story and remains uncorroborated. Other claims she made during her short life include giving birth to a baby in Papua New Guinea and slitting her wrists in a suicide attempt, rebutted by the pathologist at post-mortem.

I would hope you would be a little more circumspect about a young women claiming she was being sexually abused by her father given all the recent history and not least in the CoE:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63144354

You appear to want to victim blame LB and DB.

Laws were not passed in NZ until 2014 to protect children from abuse ie safeguarding, background checks etc:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2014/0040/57.0/DLM5501618.html

Paedophiles often gravitate to organised religion and education where they have access to children.  It is well documented that Papua New Guinea was/is rife with child abuse. 

Where is the evidence the pathologist rebutted any claims she made?

How can a psychologist provide a reliable opinion about an individual they have never met?  This is analogous to a pathologist carrying out a post mortem on a body they have never seen 

I claim to be a teacher? Yes, I'm a qualified teacher, which when I look back took me two years' O Level study, two years' A Level study, a four-year degree, a one-year PGCE course followed by a one-year probationary year in a school in Inner London in the 1980s. I think I've earned the right to comment on this website, don't you?

Based on your comments above I doubt you have undertaken any training in safeguarding?

NB. I celebrated Candlemas this morning at church. Sundays always set me up for the week.

Well take a look around the congregation and just remember there might well be a Colin Howell and Hazel Stewart amongst you!

Do you honestly believe all this stuff: a virgin giving birth?     I can understand how people bought into all this hundreds of years ago but most of us are a little more enlightened today 

[Cambridgecutie]

Someone was seen leaving the house around the time of the tragedy not David or Robin.

I am perplexed that Steve simply disregards evidence because he thinks he has got his man? You can convict anyone on that basis how can any jury come to a fair decision if certain evidence is withheld?

You always get claims of "someone was seen".  I think it is a striaghtforward murder/suicide with RB the perp.  It was unusual for the Bain family to be together.  The night before the murders/suicide the entire family were at 65 Every St.  It is documented that LB intended to blow the whistle on her father sexually abusing her.  David went to bed early to get up early to carry out his paper round.  When he was in his bedroom he said he heard raised voices downstairs.  My view is that he was spared because he was the only one not party to the revelations.  RB would know that had DB heard he would have made himself known.  The family was dysfunctional.  The parents and the home, if you can call it that, looked dire hence the place was burned to the ground.  Today there would be intervention by social services or the like.  The problem is when you have parents that are considered middle class and attend a church etc they get away with more than a lower socio-economic family would.

I have always believed it to be a case like WHF where the defence and prosecution agreed it was either RB or DB?

Best to keep it simple Rob.  Life is complicated enough without "someone was seen"!

[Cambridgecutie]

Getting up out of bed and waiting for your son to get out of the house to carry out his usual paper round, is hardly spying.
Like I've already said I'm not convinced it was either David or Robin. Just more likely it was Robin and not David.

If it wasn't RB, and the evidence shows it was not DB, what possible reason could someone have to want to murder the family and spare DB? 

I thought the defence and prosecution have always agreed it was either RB or DB? 

[Steve_uk]

Either the struggle with SB or when he committed suicide.

I would hope you would be a little more circumspect about a young women claiming she was being sexually abused by her father given all the recent history and not least in the CoE:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63144354

You appear to want to victim blame LB and DB.

Laws were not passed in NZ until 2014 to protect children from abuse ie safeguarding, background checks etc:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2014/0040/57.0/DLM5501618.html

Paedophiles often gravitate to organised religion and education where they have access to children.  It is well documented that Papua New Guinea was/is rife with child abuse. 

Where is the evidence the pathologist rebutted any claims she made?

How can a psychologist provide a reliable opinion about an individual they have never met?  This is analogous to a pathologist carrying out a post mortem on a body they have never seen 

Based on your comments above I doubt you have undertaken any training in safeguarding?

Well take a look around the congregation and just remember there might well be a Colin Howell and Hazel Stewart amongst you!

Do you honestly believe all this stuff: a virgin giving birth?     I can understand how people bought into all this hundreds of years ago but most of us are a little more enlightened today 

I take exception to the comments you have made about my person. I could retaliate but the gentleman in me advises restraint.

The comments about Laniet being a fantasist and exhibiting histrionic personality disorder I have from a source I'm not going to divulge. There was another site where I got information, which was in the public domain for years, but was closed down when Joe Karam sued them. I recall several allegations regarding David Bain, which were extremely damaging to his cause. https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/loser-karam-defamation-case-files-bankruptcy

There are men who are particularly vulnerable to allegations of a sexual nature, which is one of the reasons I maintain my anonymity on this site. I doubt with your extreme feminism you are able to put yourself in any man's shoes. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61737406

[Steve_uk]

If it wasn't RB, and the evidence shows it was not DB, what possible reason could someone have to want to murder the family and spare DB? 

I thought the defence and prosecution have always agreed it was either RB or DB?

You didn't read #142 or you wouldn't have written that.

[Rob_]

If it wasn't RB, and the evidence shows it was not DB, what possible reason could someone have to want to murder the family and spare DB? 

I thought the defence and prosecution have always agreed it was either RB or DB?

Was DB spared? Even now people still think he did it.

If RB did it then his final act of cruelty was to frame his son who he did not get on with.

[Steve_uk]

Was DB spared? Even now people still think he did it.

If RB did it then his final act of cruelty was to frame his son who he did not get on with.

I don't know how David Bain can live with himself. He must be insane, however one defines that word.

[Cambridgecutie]

Was DB spared? Even now people still think he did it.

Of course there will people out there that still think he did it.  Much the same way there are people that still think the earth is flat. 

If RB did it then his final act of cruelty was to frame his son who he did not get on with.

No I don't believe so.  It is well documented that RB was a computer enthusiast.  He would never think in his wildest dreams that DB would take the blame. 

[Cambridgecutie]

I don't know how David Bain can live with himself. He must be insane, however one defines that word.

He doesn't live with himself.  He is married with a family of his own.   

He was assessed by psychiatrist, Dr Brinded, and found to be not suffering from any mental illness or personality disorder and 'normal'. 

[handymanz]

Here's a more pleasant story for Kiwis handyman: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/other/watch-schoolboy-smashes-world-record-for-fastest-mile-by-junior-athlete/ar-AA1VqN5T?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=6980cec9b31e470bb7cab779d6f5e742&ei=18&cvpid=6980cf855e5f42178d65597f61a3fbb4

Yes, I saw that on the news the other day. NZ has a rich history of producing world-class middle-distance runners John Walker & Peter Snell with his 3 Olympic Gold Medals.

[handymanz]

If it wasn't RB, and the evidence shows it was not DB, what possible reason could someone have to want to murder the family and spare DB? 

I thought the defence and prosecution have always agreed it was either RB or DB?

At the time of the Bain murders there was a high-level pedophile network operating in Dunedin.
With some connections to the Presbyterian Church in which Robin & Margaret Bain were involved with.
 
There is info out there but a major published work about it all is now difficult to find, because it keeps on being taken down from the internet.
The Police seemed over keen to make it an open & shut case, culminating in the burning down of the Bains house.
Pat Brown herself made a big deal about the rifle being fired by someone wearing gloves.
I'll post any decent links that I can find about it.

Edit : Here's a link giving a broad outline.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/dunedin-church-appoints-kc-to-investigate-paedophile-ring/

[Cambridgecutie]

I take exception to the comments you have made about my person. I could retaliate but the gentleman in me advises restraint.

The comments about Laniet being a fantasist and exhibiting histrionic personality disorder I have from a source I'm not going to divulge. There was another site where I got information, which was in the public domain for years, but was closed down when Joe Karam sued them. I recall several allegations regarding David Bain, which were extremely damaging to his cause. https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/loser-karam-defamation-case-files-bankruptcy

There are men who are particularly vulnerable to allegations of a sexual nature, which is one of the reasons I maintain my anonymity on this site. I doubt with your extreme feminism you are able to put yourself in any man's shoes. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61737406

There are men and *women who prey on children.  The statistics show men far outweigh women.

For anyone to formally diagnose LB suffering from a personality disorder they would need to be properly qualified and meet with her to undertake an assessment and since this didn't happen your sources are meaningless. 

Consider the Jeffrey Epstein case.  Even when he was convicted of child sex offending, serial rape and human trafficking, the so-called great and the good were happy to turn a blind eye and continue to fawn all over him for all sorts of favours. 

When have I ever displayed any "extreme feminism"?  I believe RB murdered his family and committed suicide because LB revealed he had been sexually abusing her. DB was spared because he was not party to the revelation having gone to bed early in preparation for his early start.  That's my belief based on my perception of the evidence.  That's not feminism. 

*https://www.rosebudpodcast.co.uk/archive/charles-spencer