Author Topic: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)  (Read 31630 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #120 on: January 30, 2026, 09:16:PM »
John wayne Gacy drama starting!
One of the worst serial killers, along with Gary Ridgway.

Online snow66!

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #121 on: January 30, 2026, 11:04:PM »
One of the worst serial killers, along with Gary Ridgway.
Did you watch part 1 Steve?
Seems in the seventies the cops swore with every sentence!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #122 on: January 31, 2026, 01:06:AM »
Did you watch part 1 Steve?
Seems in the seventies the cops swore with every sentence!
I watched a film on YouTube starring Brian Dennehy.

Online snow66!

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #123 on: January 31, 2026, 12:25:PM »
I watched a film on YouTube starring Brian Dennehy.
Oh, i've never seen that one, I will check it out, Steve! Thanks!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2026, 02:15:PM »
Oh, i've never seen that one, I will check it out, Steve! Thanks!
Viewer discretion is advised.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #125 on: January 31, 2026, 03:01:PM »
It has befallen me to elucidate a few points on the two cases and members will already know where I stand: the defendants are guilty as charged.

The copycat nature of the crimes cannot really be gainsaid: five victims in each case, a .22 rifle as the murder weapon with silencer, a perpetrator damaged (to what degree is moot) and harbouring a sense of entitlement within the family unit, an alibi concocted which doesn't really stand up to scrutiny, and a convenient scapegoat with which to exculpate and allow the assassin to start afresh and gain sympathy along the way.

I'll be briefer dealing with Jeremy Bamber, as the site is named eponymously and the material here far more extensive than that involving David Bain. A plan was devised in his mind, which may well have remained theoretical to this day, to extirpate his immediate family in order to gain a £436,000 inheritance at 1985 values along with a two-bedroom flat in a fashionable area of London. His sister, Sheila, was living there mostly alone at the time of the tragedy, with her twin sons visiting at weekends.

Colin Caffell, the father of the twins, was due to take them to Norway to visit his sister following the White House Farm visit, so it was really a courtesy call on the grandparents before that trip. Sheila, who suffered from schizophrenia and was taking medication for the condition, was not fully aware of events at the best of times, and the Haloperidol made her drowsy and uncoordinated, though she liked to keep up appearances and even on occasion hold court, as evidenced by a conversation a few weeks previously with a distant cousin, Helen Grimster, during which suicide was mentioned.

It's important to lay all the facts on the table, or as many of them as possible which can be established as facts. Therefore, when considering Robin Bain's culpability, it would be wise to acknowledge that he was going through a bad patch: he had been banished from the family home on Every Street, Dunedin, to a caravan in the garden, where he had resided for the past three years, during the week he slept in another dilapidated camper van on the school grounds in Taieri Beach, often reeking of body odour by the end of the week. He had published some inappropriate stories from pupils in the school magazine. A wad of correspondence from the Local Authority remained unopened on his desk in the office.

It is these circumstances which the two defendants took advantage of. David had been poisoned by his mother's vitriol towards her husband, describing him as Belial, synonymous with the Devil in the epistles of Paul. The four children had been running wild in the compound in Papua New Guinea, Margaret unable to cope and relying on the firstborn to take charge, as Margaret herself in her turn had been put upon by her mother, being the eldest of four daughters.

The mother, to her credit, knew there was a problem. She enlisted the assistance of psychologist Wendy Maitland, who interviewed the family in 1987. She states:

"I was worried by the magnitude of the problem. David was then 15, but all the children were affected. It's like a tragedy that is perpetuated through the generations. I didn't foresee a tragedy of this kind, but it was clear to me that if they didn't seek help the children would become mentally ill. There would be psychological damage, havoc."
« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 03:06:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #126 on: January 31, 2026, 03:25:PM »
As stated previously, it is not my intention to delve into every detail of the Jeremy Bamber case. It would be conjecture to claim to know whether Nevill ran upstairs and back down again, whether he managed to reach a telephone, whether he laid by the Aga for hours, what movements were made by his wife and daughter in the early hours. Suffice to say: five individuals were dead when the Raid Team entered, with a .22 Anschütz rifle lying beside her. Jeremy was outside, feeding a narrative to unsuspecting police officers, a narrative which when analysed contained some downright lies.

Members might be asking themselves: the motive for Jeremy Bamber to commit the crimes is staring at one in the face, namely the inheritance factor. But what about David Bain? Why on earth would he want to kill his entire family?

Of course, the Prosecution does not need to supply a motive, only to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. But what was going through David's mind that morning: was this a planned or impromptu crime?

To answer that question it is necessary to go right back to the time in the Waigani compound in Papua New Guinea. Robin, as a teacher trainer of two hundred students had status, his wife as memsahib also carried status and they were financially secure. Thus, they felt able to procreate a large family by today's standards: David born in 1972, Arawa, born 1974, Laniet, born 1976, and Stephen, born 1980.

Sadly, David didn't settle into school life. He was bullied remorselessly by the other boys for his stuck out ears, he wasn't academically inclined, he was awkward around people in general and retreated into his own little world as a result. Margaret made the decision to withdraw him from school at age 11 and home tutor him along with the other three children.


« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 03:57:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #127 on: January 31, 2026, 03:34:PM »
If we now jump several years to 1988, when the Bain family returned to New Zealand. It's often been said that 65 Every Street, Anderson's Bay, Dunedin was run down, dilapidated and in need of repair. All that is true, but one has to remember the house had been tenanted for years and it had been neglected by them. However, there is some truth that the residence was dirty, hygiene standards and tidiness were lacking, the mother, Margaret having taken to her bed and apparently giving orders to the rest of the family from there.

More importantly, upon return to the mother country Robin found himself unemployed, David, whose education had been most damaged by the years spent in Papua New Guinea was also unemployed, whilst as the clock ticked on to the tragic events of 1994 it seemed that Arawa, Laniet and Stephen were gradually beginning to shake off the worst remnants of Waigani and make a life for themselves.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 03:35:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #128 on: January 31, 2026, 03:48:PM »
The justification for the crimes in the eyes of Jeremy and David? I'm quite sure Jeremy envied Sheila's lifestyle in Maida Vale, not understanding her illness apart from the superficiality, though deceiving himself that he would put his old and increasingly frail-looking father out of his misery, along with his mad mother and sister. The twins, sharing her mother's mentally-ill genes would grow up damaged, so had to be despatched. In his horribly perverted mind were mercy killings: the inheritance an afterthought.

With David it was more difficult to discern. There was talk by Margaret, who still imagined herself as matriarch even under greatly reduced circumstances, that she and Stephen would live together in a unit in town. Not, the reader may note, mother and firstborn. I thought of that when I considered the typewritten message on the computer: "Sorry, you are the only one who deserved to stay."

Note: stay, not live. Was David thinking that he would be the only one left in that dilapidated dwelling, following Laniet's departure to find fortune, Arawa was the success story enrolling at teacher training college and taking digs there, whilst Robin as mentioned had already been banished from the house years previously.

It was just too much for David to countenance: a solitary existence after all he had done for his mother, his father too much of a hands-off parent to instil any discipline, the simple row over a chain saw enough to send David over the edge. The money that the parents had set aside for the new house David alone was entitled to: he was the only one who deserved to stay.

https://youtu.be/K8CvHwZK9-c
« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 09:58:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline David1819

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #129 on: January 31, 2026, 03:58:PM »
This is a rather pointless topic.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #130 on: January 31, 2026, 04:01:PM »
This is a rather pointless topic.
Well, David1819, if you have more information it might persuade you to change your mind, since you consider both defendants innocent.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 04:02:PM by Steve_uk »

Online Rob_

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #131 on: January 31, 2026, 05:02:PM »
Well, David1819, if you have more information it might persuade you to change your mind, since you consider both defendants innocent.

I think it is grossly unfair Steve to smear someone without a deep study of the case.

With respect but your view seems so highly biased I don't know what to say.

There was strong evidence that Robin had handled a rifle/magazine that day but this amongst other things was withheld from the jury.

Using a expert witness to give evidence on highly subjective matters as fact to a jury is also a major problem.   

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #132 on: January 31, 2026, 05:23:PM »
I think it is grossly unfair Steve to smear someone without a deep study of the case.

With respect but your view seems so highly biased I don't know what to say.

There was strong evidence that Robin had handled a rifle/magazine that day but this amongst other things was withheld from the jury.

Using a expert witness to give evidence on highly subjective matters as fact to a jury is also a major problem.   
No, he was tidying the garden with a chainsaw, which made the marks on his finger and thumb. Speaking of thumb, there was a tiny speck of blood on Robin's nail invisible to the naked eye: back spatter from when David killed him from the alcove. The back spatter evidence was not adduced in court.

Online Rob_

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #133 on: January 31, 2026, 09:55:PM »
No, he was tidying the garden with a chainsaw, which made the marks on his finger and thumb. Speaking of thumb, there was a tiny speck of blood on Robin's nail invisible to the naked eye: back spatter from when David killed him from the alcove. The back spatter evidence was not adduced in court.

Well he must have been up very early Steve because the police were call at 7.09 which was after DB had finished his paper round.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)
« Reply #134 on: February 01, 2026, 01:38:AM »
Well he must have been up very early Steve because the police were call at 7.09 which was after DB had finished his paper round.
David had killed four and then proceeded with his paper round. Mrs. Rattray and Malcolm Parker got their newspapers delivered earlier than usual. David returned home and saw the Bain's newspaper still in the box uncollected by Robin (the newspaper was delivered by another boy), so he knew his father was still in the caravan. Dad collected the newspaper some time after 7:00am and put it on the hall table. Normality.

This is the period of the missing twenty minutes. David concealed himself behind the green curtain in the alcove, the lamp being knocked over either deliberately because he couldn't risk the light being on and Robin seeing his location or accidentally through losing the glasses in the fight with Stephen.

First responders felt the bodies of the four, which were cold to the touch, whereas Robin was warm. One can see in the photograph Robin slumped back on the bean bag, no blood anywhere on his person apart from the tiny blood spot on his thumbnail, invisible to the naked eye, proving David was the killer.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2026, 02:34:AM by Steve_uk »