Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)

[Cambridgecutie]

For those who don't wish to rely on JB's evidence, SC's neighbour provided evidence. 

It would depend on what stage of sleep NB was in whether he would wake easily or not.  According to RB June was a light sleeper and NB not.  As I said maybe SC woke June and NB but only NB got out of bed.

No one will ever know what SC's intention was leading up to the phone call.  The physical evidence shows NB made the call and SC opened fire on June in bed with NB dropping the phone going upstairs and sustaining his gunshot wounds on the landing and stairs.  SC then followed NB to the kitchen, beat him with the rifle and shot him another 4 times.     

According to this press article and SC's neighbour, Mrs Neva Temple, SC once woke her at 5am with hysterical screams and was shouting loudly.  Maybe that is how it all started off at WHF. 

https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/p/gambling-man-in-life-of-massacre-model.html?m=0

"Mrs Neva Temple, who lives next door said Sheila once woke her at 5am with hysterical screams.  'She was shouting loudly and I went to help.  She seemed very distraught.'

[Steve_uk]

For those who don't wish to rely on JB's evidence, SC's neighbour provided evidence. 

It would depend on what stage of sleep NB was in whether he would wake easily or not.  According to RB June was a light sleeper and NB not.  As I said maybe SC woke June and NB but only NB got out of bed.

No one will ever know what SC's intention was leading up to the phone call.  The physical evidence shows NB made the call and SC opened fire on June in bed with NB dropping the phone going upstairs and sustaining his gunshot wounds on the landing and stairs.  SC then followed NB to the kitchen, beat him with the rifle and shot him another 4 times.     

But that's slightly different from what you claimed. Nevill was the one person who could calm Sheila down.

[Steve_uk]

He said on the emergency call "They're all dead".  How would he know "They're all dead" if he hadn't observed them?

Well, you just proved the point that he changed his story.  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/aunt-tells-bains-reaction

[Adam]

For those who don't wish to rely on JB's evidence, SC's neighbour provided evidence. 

It would depend on what stage of sleep NB was in whether he would wake easily or not.  According to RB June was a light sleeper and NB not.  As I said maybe SC woke June and NB but only NB got out of bed.

No one will ever know what SC's intention was leading up to the phone call.  The physical evidence shows NB made the call and SC opened fire on June in bed with NB dropping the phone going upstairs and sustaining his gunshot wounds on the landing and stairs.  SC then followed NB to the kitchen, beat him with the rifle and shot him another 4 times.     

How would Sheila's neighbour know?

So Sheila went downstairs bare footed.

Nevill woke but we don't know what  from.

Nevill went downstairs bare footed.

June stayed in bed.

What happened while they were both in the kitchen that made Nevill call Jeremy?

[Cambridgecutie]

But that's slightly different from what you claimed. Nevill was the one person who could calm Sheila down.

Is it?  Please explain. 

There is evidence that NB was able to "calm" SC, as you put it, on a previous occasion, but someone suffering a serious mental illness, that according to Dr Ferguson was only ever going to worsen as time went on, is unpredictable.  If the mentally ill were predictable we would not see all the tragedies we see where they go on to kill. 

[Jane]

According to this press article and SC's neighbour, Mrs Neva Temple, SC once woke her at 5am with hysterical screams and was shouting loudly.  Maybe that is how it all started off at WHF. 

https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/p/gambling-man-in-life-of-massacre-model.html?m=0

"Mrs Neva Temple, who lives next door said Sheila once woke her at 5am with hysterical screams.  'She was shouting loudly and I went to help.  She seemed very distraught.'

" once woke her "? That's a bit loose, don't you think? To which point in Sheila's life does this refer? Pre diagnosis? Pre first admission to hospital? Medicated but not taking medication? Pre second admission to hospital? Surely not after her second admission when she was hardly able to function and subdued almost out of existence?

[Cambridgecutie]

Well, you just proved the point that he changed his story.  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/aunt-tells-bains-reaction

What do you think is more credible: DB's words spoken and recorded during the emergency call in the immediate aftermath or a newspaper article some 15 years after the event quoting what someone else claims DB said?

In any event my interpretation of the newspaper article is DB was suffering some sort of PTSD and if the words spoken are correct he was talking about some sort of vision which was not rooted in reality hence the reference to "black hands" and the aunt saying he appeared to be in a trance like state.   

Imo Steve you have a prejudiced mind which I wonder if you are aware of?  I wonder if these stories you weave together about the likes of DB and JB feeling constricted by their circumstances and wanting to become kingpin etc say more about you than you perhaps realise?  You have said in the past your life has been largely shaped by the church, looking after your parents and teaching. 

Prejudice is the reason I believe Colin Howell and Hazel Stewart got away with murder for nearly 2 decades until CH confessed.  The pair were able to slip under the radar with the most audacious plan for staged suicides (yes plural!) because of who they were: professional with families and very involved with the church.  The latter carrying a lot of weight in a country like NI. 

Think about it Steve, all the nonsense you level at DB and JB you would not be able to level at Colin Howell and Hazel Stewart!

[Cambridgecutie]

" once woke her "? That's a bit loose, don't you think? To which point in Sheila's life does this refer? Pre diagnosis? Pre first admission to hospital? Medicated but not taking medication? Pre second admission to hospital? Surely not after her second admission when she was hardly able to function and subdued almost out of existence?

The physical evidence at the soc tells a different story.

[Cambridgecutie]

How would Sheila's neighbour know?

So Sheila went downstairs bare footed.

Nevill woke but we don't know what  from.

Nevill went downstairs bare footed.

June stayed in bed.

What happened while they were both in the kitchen that made Nevill call Jeremy?

No one will ever know all the micro details.  At a macro level the physical evidence reveals enough to support SC as the killer.

[Adam]

" once woke her "? That's a bit loose, don't you think? To which point in Sheila's life does this refer? Pre diagnosis? Pre first admission to hospital? Medicated but not taking medication? Pre second admission to hospital? Surely not after her second admission when she was hardly able to function and subdued almost out of existence?

What happened between Nevill and Sheila that made Nevill call Jerrmy at 3.00am?

After they both mysteriously ended up in the kitchen bare footed while everyone else slept.

Nevill would know Sheila could not function.

[Jane]

The physical evidence at the soc tells a different story.

Which was exactly how JB planned it to look!

[Adam]

No one will ever know all the micro details.  At a macro level the physical evidence reveals enough to support SC as the killer.

They are not micro details.

The defence can't go to trial and say 'we don't know'.

The defence said Sheila shot Nevill in bed. Nevill ran downstairs to phone Jeremy.

[Zoso]

I didn't have you down as being daft so think you're having a laugh!?  But anyway...

Anyone undertaking a psychology degree at Newcastle today would be on a BSc course because that is what it offers but there are plenty of universities offering BA courses in psychology:

https://www.essex.ac.uk/courses/ug00361/1/ba-psychology

Some universities offer BA's and BSc's in the same subject but the content is different.

From AI:

The main difference between a BA and BSc in Psychology lies in their focus: BA Psychology leans towards humanities, exploring social/cultural aspects with electives in arts, suited for counseling/HR; while BSc Psychology emphasizes natural sciences, demanding more math/stats/lab work, preparing for research, neuroscience, or clinical roles. A BA offers broader theory and human behavior context, whereas a BSc provides deeper scientific and analytical skills for research-intensive paths.

BA (Bachelor of Arts) in Psychology
Focus: Qualitative, social, cultural, and philosophical aspects of human behavior.
Coursework: Social psychology, developmental psychology, personality theory, often with electives in sociology, literature, or anthropology.
Skills: Strong understanding of human interaction, communication, and behavior in social contexts.
Career Paths: Counseling, social work, human resources (HR), education, journalism, advertising.

BSc (Bachelor of Science) in Psychology
Focus: Quantitative, scientific, and biological basis of behavior, with a strong research component.
Coursework: Includes more statistics, research methods, neuroscience, cognitive science, and lab work.
Skills: Analytical, experimental, data-driven, understanding brain function and scientific processes.
Career Paths: Research, neuroscience, data analysis, health tech, preparation for scientific PhDs/MDs.

How to Choose
Choose BA if: You're interested in helping professions, social dynamics, human communication, and a broader understanding of behavior.
Choose BSc if: You enjoy science, math, labs, research, and aim for careers in healthcare, neuroscience, or academia.

Check University Syllabi: Course offerings vary; check specific university programs for core psychology content and available electives.

Anyway back to Pat Brown.  She claims to have a BA in liberal arts from New York Uni and a MA in criminal justice from Boston.  Boston does not currently offer a MA in criminal justice just a MSc.  She does not present as someone with a MA or a MSc in criminal justice.  She presents more like a regular poster here ie poring over cases in a haphazard way.

I'm not arguing with you - it's the same course and I don't give a stuff what AI says. She clearly did the course years ago when the subject she took was considered an 'Arts' Masters - the same course (although it may have differed somewhat when she did it), is now an MSc. Arguing for the sake of it, doesn't make you right or her any less qualified.

[Steve_uk]

What do you think is more credible: DB's words spoken and recorded during the emergency call in the immediate aftermath or a newspaper article some 15 years after the event quoting what someone else claims DB said?

In any event my interpretation of the newspaper article is DB was suffering some sort of PTSD and if the words spoken are correct he was talking about some sort of vision which was not rooted in reality hence the reference to "black hands" and the aunt saying he appeared to be in a trance like state.   

Imo Steve you have a prejudiced mind which I wonder if you are aware of?  I wonder if these stories you weave together about the likes of DB and JB feeling constricted by their circumstances and wanting to become kingpin etc say more about you than you perhaps realise?  You have said in the past your life has been largely shaped by the church, looking after your parents and teaching. 

Prejudice is the reason I believe Colin Howell and Hazel Stewart got away with murder for nearly 2 decades until CH confessed.  The pair were able to slip under the radar with the most audacious plan for staged suicides (yes plural!) because of who they were: professional with families and very involved with the church.  The latter carrying a lot of weight in a country like NI. 

Think about it Steve, all the nonsense you level at DB and JB you would not be able to level at Colin Howell and Hazel Stewart!

David Bain was faking, he was faking throughout and has kept up the pretence. He learned the art of trancing from his mother, Margaret. Janice Clark was under oath at trial. Why would she lie?

It's quite evident to me both David Bain and Jeremy Bamber wanted to be kingpins (I have never had such an aspiration-sorry to disappoint.) The typed message written on the computer says it all really, and could have been devised by Jeremy himself.

The Church has its rotten apples like any other organization. But I stick with it because it's predominantly a force for good.

[snow66!]

John wayne Gacy drama starting!