Pros & cons of the defence scenario

[ILB]

No. He needed a motivated Bamber before, during & after his testimony.

Dont believe Bamber needed any motivation, he was going not gulity whatever, he had a potential life sentence hanging over him.

Talking more from Rivlins perspective.

[Adam]

Dont believe Bamber needed any motivation, he was going not gulity whatever, he had a potential life sentence hanging over him.

Talking more from Rivlins perspective.

Still no. Would not be very professional of Rivlin.

[ILB]

Still no. Would not be very professional of Rivlin.

As chiefly a prosecutor, Rivlin would have known and did in fact comment " that it would be a difficult case to win "

Must have been many a heated discussion between him and Bamber.

[snow66!]

Maybe the prosecution submitted the Sheila scenario which matched the crime scene. Then opposed it - no blood on phone etc.

Thought the defence would say why and when Nevill called Bamber for the jury.

The defence had one major drawback at the time, Adam, the Aga evidence had not been discovered!
If the possibility of Nevill lying beside the Aga for several hours had been presented in court that would have blown the straight forward police scenario out of the water!

[Adam]

The defence would have worked out a Sheila scenario pre trial.

Whether they wanted to promote it at trial is another matter.

The difference with the defence Sheila scenario to forum scenarios is that they could not invent a long winded kitchen conversation where Nevill & June do not negate an escalating situation. 

The defence would also have to include the silencer. As they did not dispute it was Sheila's blood in it.

[ILB]

The defence would have worked out a Sheila scenario pre trial.

Whether they wanted to promote it at trial is another matter.

This is more than likely true, Although it was more likely just table talk. Theres no way Rivlin and Lawson would have put it across.

[ILB]

The defence would have worked out a Sheila scenario pre trial.

Whether they wanted to promote it at trial is another matter.

The difference with the defence Sheila scenario to forum scenarios is that they could not invent a long winded kitchen conversation where Nevill & June do not negate an escalating situation. 

The defence would also have to include the silencer. As they did not dispute it was Sheila's blood in it.

Privately I believe Rivlin knew from the outset the case was lost.

The silencer was compelling evidence ( on paper at least) once Justice Drake said the famous line " on the silencer evidence alone you convict" they must have known they were fucked.

[ILB]

I was always shocked Mike Fielder from The Sun wasnt called as a witness.

Although nothing compelling evidence wise, it certainly paints Jeremy in a negative light.

Years later Jeremy offered a different account on their meeting.

[David1819]

I was always shocked Mike Fielder from The Sun wasnt called as a witness.

Although nothing compelling evidence wise, it certainly paints Jeremy in a negative light.

Years later Jeremy offered a different account on their meeting.

Bad character evidence is usually not permitted. Plus according to Brett Collins the meeting never took place.

[ILB]

Bad character evidence is usually not permitted. Plus according to Brett Collins the meeting never took place.

Essentially though to me that's all James Richards evidence was, " I hate my fucking parents". Not even bad charchter evidence as its something uttered by teens and twenty somethings all over. But that's how they dressed it.

I have not seen Brett's take on it.

[Steve_uk]

Bad character evidence is usually not permitted. Plus according to Brett Collins the meeting never took place.

When did he say that?

[Adam]

There is a Sheila scenario which matches the crime scene evidence. The problems of the early part of it are in reply 1.

Problems later on would be Sheila being able to shoot herself once with the silencer on. Then go downstairs and put it away.

Nevill still being fit enough to get downstairs & phone Jeremy but then get totally obliterated by Sheila is not plausible.

Sheila being strong enough to lift Nevill onto the coal scuttle is not possible.

[Adam]

Sheila would have put the silencer on the rifle when she went downstairs.

She could have also loaded a seperate magazine with 8 bullets.

Then gone upstairs with the rifle/silencer and magazine.

Once she had emptied the rifle on June & Nevill - 9 bullets, she went into the twins room to load the magazine and shoot them 8 times.

Sheila being in the twins room gave Nevill the chance to go downstairs and start phoning Jeremy.

[ILB]

A shelia scenario is more complex in the sense you have to include the reasons she may have gone berserk.

[Adam]

A shelia scenario is more complex in the sense you have to include the reasons she may have gone berserk.

It is extremely horrific that she would shoot her mother & father while they slept. They were supporting her financially & emotionally and she was staying at there house.

Then equally horrific that she shot her sons while they slept.

Bamber's suggestion was the fostering conversation earlier.