Fight between Sheila and June

[ILB]

It's very possible that none of those, believed by you, to "fit the bill" , in all probability, didn't. No psychopath/narcissist ever reveals their true selves. They all make wonderful work of mirroring the surrounding company so no one ever suspect's them.

It would be absolutely madness for someone even as joke to play up to a defence inducted psychiatrist. Especially if claiming " my sister tragically did this, im so wronged "

[Jane]

I have always been intrigued by the pre trial psychiatrist who was inducted by the defence to assess Jeremy Bamber.

In one of the books it says the psychiatrist told the defence " if ever there was a psychopath his name is Jeremy Bamber"

Having met Jeremy years ago and having spent time in his company, and having met people who may " fit that type of view " loosely speaking. All I can say there was nothing about Jeremy Bamber that made me think " this guys a weirdo" a bit overbearing and assertive and confident, but no red flags.

Also Jeremy to this day is always giving the impression of " im just a normal bloke who is wronged" officially at least he comes across in his blogs interviews, people who see him to this day as a " normal bloke "

Back in 1986 when the psychiatrist did the interview, he was completley protesting his innocence, none of his friends describe him as being abnormal in any shape or form so I am interested in what behaviour he showed for the psychiatrist to come to that conclusion. You would think given his circumstances he would play the " im innocent and a normal bloke " spiel, even if he was guilty. Especially as such a positive report would go in his favour.

You're correct! There's nothing about psychos/narcs which would cause one to think "this guy's a weirdo" . But overbearing, assertive and confident could be the red flags you missed. There is nothing that sets them apart from those they are trying to fit in with/emulate so it makes sense that his friends didn't see him as being "abnormal". However, the psychiatrist will have seen rather more people, charged with murder, than his friends had, and would therefore be able to pick up on those red flags that you, and his friends, missed. I'll also hazard a guess that the JB you knew wasn't the same JB that his friends knew.A

[Hardy Boy]

It's very possible that none of those, believed by you, to "fit the bill" , in all probability, didn't. No psychopath/narcissist ever reveals their true selves. They all make wonderful work of mirroring the surrounding company so no one ever suspect's them.

Why would a paid for by the  Defence Psychiatrist make up his assessment of Bamber if it wasn’t what he truly believed.   He wasn’t there to win the case for Bamber he was there to offer his expert opinion.  Obviously once he’d done his assessment they then wouldn’t want to use him as a witness.  Trust me I’ve recently got it wrong about people close to me.

[Adam]

Bamber justified to himself why he should commit the massacre -

Nevill - Past it.

June - Religious maniac.

Twins - Doing Colin a favour.

Sheila - Putting her out of her misery.

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Although the main reason was financial.

He started insinuating Sheila hours after the massacre & has spent the last 40 years continuing to do so. As well as protest his innocence. Blaming individuals and organisations for his conviction.

The internet increased his support from one person - Mike.

So quite possible he has blocked out the fact he did it.

[ILB]

Bamber justified to himself why he should commit the massacre -

Nevill - Past it.

June - Religious maniac.

Twins - Doing Colin a favour.

Sheila - Putting her out of her misery.

----------

Although the main reason was financial.

He started insinuating Sheila hours after the massacre & has spent the last 40 years continuing to do so. As well as protest his innocence. Blaming individuals and organisations for his conviction.

The internet increased his support from one person - Mike.

So quite possible he has blocked out the fact he did it.

Jail is a funny place.

To keep up a pretence in an environment that allows limited privacy, breeds mental health issues and loneliness and is a naturally stressful environment. To keep being able to claim innocence and so vehemently is unusual, its not unheard of but it is.

I dont believe the mike confession but im also shocked that there's never been one inkling of someone selling a Bamber confession to a red top paper. I know from experience that many in Long Lartin poo poohed his innocence claims but he has always remained steadfast and still does.

[ILB]

Why would a paid for by the  Defence Psychiatrist make up his assessment of Bamber if it wasn’t what he truly believed.   He wasn’t there to win the case for Bamber he was there to offer his expert opinion.  Obviously once he’d done his assessment they then wouldn’t want to use him as a witness.  Trust me I’ve recently got it wrong about people close to me.

Im really skeptical of terms thrown around such as " psychopath " " narcissist by " professionals me Hardy personally.

[ILB]

You're correct! There's nothing about psychos/narcs which would cause one to think "this guy's a weirdo" . But overbearing, assertive and confident could be the red flags you missed. There is nothing that sets them apart from those they are trying to fit in with/emulate so it makes sense that his friends didn't see him as being "abnormal". However, the psychiatrist will have seen rather more people, charged with murder, than his friends had, and would therefore be able to pick up on those red flags that you, and his friends, missed. I'll also hazard a guess that the JB you knew wasn't the same JB that his friends knew.A

Well Jane that's pretty obvious, when I met him he was some years into a life sentence. When his friends knew him he had all his liberties in place.

I just wonder what he did say to that psychiatrist. One would think he would be trying to put a positive impression upon him.

[Steve_uk]

Im really skeptical of terms thrown around such as " psychopath " " narcissist by " professionals me Hardy personally.

How about just pure evil then? He did admit that "maybe there's something wrong with me" to Julie at Blazer's Restaurant, Blackheath.

[ILB]

How about just pure evil then? He did admit that "maybe there's something wrong with me" to Julie at Blazer's Restaurant, Blackheath.

Not just talking about Jeremy.

You see terms thrown about by " psychiatrists " " professionals " after being wise to the wisdom of the event.

[Steve_uk]

Not just talking about Jeremy.

You see terms thrown about by " psychiatrists " " professionals " after being wise to the wisdom of the event.

There is often a pattern to male murderers. Many have an issue with their mothers for a start.

[Hardy Boy]

Im really skeptical of terms thrown around such as " psychopath " " narcissist by " professionals me Hardy personally.

To be honest I am skeptical as well, it’s one persons judgement I suppose, but I don’t think they lie in their assessment?  I just found it strange, usually a defence expert sways with the defence.  I also found it strange it was let out about this test? 

[ILB]

There is often a pattern to male murderers. Many have an issue with their mothers for a start.

And many have good relationships with them.

It is a very much an individual circumstance kind of thing.

[ILB]

There is often a pattern to male murderers. Many have an issue with their mothers for a start.

In this case in point it wasnt just Jeremy who had an issue with June.

Shelia did.

Colin did.

The boys did.

Even Nevill, even thoroughly devoted to his wife highlighted in his own terms her shortcomings and problems.

[Jane]

Not just talking about Jeremy.

You see terms thrown about by " psychiatrists " " professionals " after being wise to the wisdom of the event.

But it's not a criminal offence to be a psych/narc. Both can live out their lives without coming to the notice of the law. I would argue that narc traits are more obvious than psych.............if you know what you're seeing!

[Bill Robertson]

This is not correct.  Rivlin did not agree a statement of fact in those terms.  I do not know where you got this from.

Dear NGB, you wrote rather tersely, “Rivlin did not agree a statement of fact in those terms” well, Yes and No. Please let me explain.

I could not easily find my source documents but yesterday, while engaged in some painful constipation and occupying the pan for a considerable time I did a search on an old laptop that I recovered from the loft while waiting for the Hardy to emerge (I call these turds Hardy's because they are thick and obnoxious).

Anyway, buried in a drive were two documents from Yvonne Hartley pertaining to the agreed facts. BU-18-02 Agreed Facts and 45.33 Further Admissions Agreed Facts.

BU-18-02 includes the section that I referred to - Point 8a on page 3 stated, “On the night of 6th and 7th August 1986 (sic) Jeremy Bamber murdered five persons”. However, I now believe this to have been a draft document that was not agreed with the prosecution as document 45.33 Further Admissions Agreed Facts does not include this agreement, even though it does reproduce the rest of BU-18-02 Agreed Facts. And, it seems to be a defence draft rather than a prosecution proposal.

45.33 Further Admissions Agreed Facts is a Stokenchurch document Box number 45 Item 33 entitled List of Admissions. It runs to eight pages and has six more agreed facts than contained in the draft document, BU-18-02 Agreed Facts.

If you were involved in the defence of JB or knew of Rivlin’s outlook, perhaps you would be kind enough to confirm whether he did in fact believe JB to be innocent? His somewhat diffident approach to the trial and his failure to question witnesses in depth, plus helping out prosecution witnesses suggests to many that he was not fully engaged in JB’s defence? It was Rivlin after all who put words into Bews’ mouth – “a trick of the light”. Perhaps if Bews had not been helped out by Rivlin he might have told the truth?
Anyway, if you were there your observations would be interesting.

p.s. The Hardy did eventually emerge and was flushed away I am pleased to report.