Fight between Sheila and June

[snow66!]

I thought he finished his mother off with one shot between the eyes whilst she was in the doorway.

Can you expand a little, Steve?

[Steve_uk]

Can you expand a little, Steve?

Well, the official story is June was shot in bed as Jeremy was stood in the doorway, the bullets piercing her pillow. I can't say with any certainty the sequence of events, except that she somehow managed to pull herself out of bed, one assumes whilst her son was preoccupied elsewhere. The crimes were personal, which is why there was overkill. I assume Jeremy took one last disdainful look at his mother as she lay dying and finished her off with a shot to the lower forehead right between the eyes.

Symbolic of his rage for the family that he refused to identify the bodies, leaving that task to gofer Julie. Content with his handiwork and anxious to boast to her he let out a chuckle when out of earshot, or so he thought, tantamount to dancing on five graves.

[Adam]

Where do you think Bamber was standing when he shot June in the head, Adam?

Next to June?!

[snow66!]

Well, the official story is June was shot in bed as Jeremy was stood in the doorway, the bullets piercing her pillow. I can't say with any certainty the sequence of events, except that she somehow managed to pull herself out of bed, one assumes whilst her son was preoccupied elsewhere. The crimes were personal, which is why there was overkill. I assume Jeremy took one last disdainful look at his mother as she lay dying and finished her off with a shot to the lower forehead right between the eyes.

Symbolic of his rage for the family that he refused to identify the bodies, leaving that task to gofer Julie. Content with his handiwork and anxious to boast to her he let out a chuckle when out of earshot, or so he thought, tantamount to dancing on five graves.

OK, so June had already fallen to the floor by the time JB returned then, Steve? Then he shot her twice in the head!

[Jane]

OK, so June had already fallen to the floor by the time JB returned then, Steve? Then he shot her twice in the head!

There was blood on her pillow so presumably there had been a head shot prior to her leaving the bed. I believe there were also shots to her legs, but even had there  or been, it wouldn't have taken much to bring her to her knees, given what she was experiencing.

[Bill Robertson]

Surely that would be a very foolish approach by the prosecution because they could easliy have been found out.

How would Vanezis’ lies be found out? Images suitable for close examination did not become available until 2011. Rivlin agreed a statement of fact with the prosecutor that JB killed his family so Vanezis was not likely to be challenged. Which is what happened in court.

[snow66!]

There was blood on her pillow so presumably there had been a head shot prior to her leaving the bed. I believe there were also shots to her legs, but even had there  or been, it wouldn't have taken much to bring her to her knees, given what she was experiencing.

No, any of the two head shots would have killed her instantly, Jane! But! I will check what Vanezis said just to make sure.
The blood on the pillow most likely came from the bullet that went right through beside her neck.

[Jane]

No, any of the two head shots would have killed her instantly, Jane! But! I will check what Vanezis said just to make sure.
The blood on the pillow most likely came from the bullet that went right through beside her neck.

They may not have been mortal head shots and they certainly weren't fatal. If you recall, the neck shot to Sheila wasn't instantly fatal but it was mortal. None the less, blood on pillows invariably comes from somewhere in the cranial area.

[Adam]

Suspect June crawled across the bedroom. Or at best, staggered.

She had been shot 5 times. Once in the knee. And had not managed to leave the bedroom.

She may have been dead or unconcious when Bamber returned upstairs. But he automatically shot her again, twice.

[David1819]

Rivlin agreed a statement of fact with the prosecutor that JB killed his family

Where on earth did you get this claim from?

The only time this happens is when a plea bargain or insanity defence is being negotiated.

[Bill Robertson]

Where on earth did you get this claim from?
The only time this happens is when a plea bargain or insanity defence is being negotiated.

For cases that  are  proceeding  to  trial,  it  is  the responsibility of  Crown  counsel  to  attempt  to  narrow  the  issues  as  much  as  possible. Towards this end, Crown Attorneys:   
• Identify any legal issues that may arise and seek the defence’s position on those issues. 
• More particularly, identify those issues from which defence counsel might make admissions, such as voir dires  on the admissibility of statements; and 
• identify witnesses whose  evidence  may  not  be  necessary,  so  that  unnecessary subpoenas are not issued.
In Jeremy’s case the process outlined above include the exchange of an agreed statement of facts. This included diagrammatic plans of White House Farm and that the hours of darkness on the night of 6th/7th August were from 21.08 on 6th to 04:59 on 7th. Point 8a on page 3 stated, “On the night of 6th and 7th August 1986 (sic) Jeremy Bamber murdered five persons”. The defence agreed with this statement.

[ngb1066]

For cases that  are  proceeding  to  trial,  it  is  the responsibility of  Crown  counsel  to  attempt  to  narrow  the  issues  as  much  as  possible. Towards this end, Crown Attorneys:   
• Identify any legal issues that may arise and seek the defence’s position on those issues. 
• More particularly, identify those issues from which defence counsel might make admissions, such as voir dires  on the admissibility of statements; and 
• identify witnesses whose  evidence  may  not  be  necessary,  so  that  unnecessary subpoenas are not issued.
In Jeremy’s case the process outlined above include the exchange of an agreed statement of facts. This included diagrammatic plans of White House Farm and that the hours of darkness on the night of 6th/7th August were from 21.08 on 6th to 04:59 on 7th. Point 8a on page 3 stated, “On the night of 6th and 7th August 1986 (sic) Jeremy Bamber murdered five persons”. The defence agreed with this statement.

This is not correct.  Rivlin did not agree a statement of fact in those terms.  I do not know where you got this from.

 

[Hardy Boy]

For cases that  are  proceeding  to  trial,  it  is  the responsibility of  Crown  counsel  to  attempt  to  narrow  the  issues  as  much  as  possible. Towards this end, Crown Attorneys:   
• Identify any legal issues that may arise and seek the defence’s position on those issues. 
• More particularly, identify those issues from which defence counsel might make admissions, such as voir dires  on the admissibility of statements; and 
• identify witnesses whose  evidence  may  not  be  necessary,  so  that  unnecessary subpoenas are not issued.
In Jeremy’s case the process outlined above include the exchange of an agreed statement of facts. This included diagrammatic plans of White House Farm and that the hours of darkness on the night of 6th/7th August were from 21.08 on 6th to 04:59 on 7th. Point 8a on page 3 stated, “On the night of 6th and 7th August 1986 (sic) Jeremy Bamber murdered five persons”. The defence agreed with this statement.

Can you please post evidence for this claim regarding Rivlin agreed a statement of fact with the Prosecution that JB killed his family?

[Bill Robertson]

This is not correct.  Rivlin did not agree a statement of fact in those terms.  I do not know where you got this from.

From Yvonne Hartley - plus documentation. Must be some kind of error then.

[ngb1066]

From Yvonne Hartley - plus documentation. Must be some kind of error then.

It certainly is an error.