Did Jeremy have a reason to put the silencer back into the gun cupboard?

[Cambridgecutie]

Eley are known or have been known to use both beeswax and paraffin wax for coating their many different rounds, so although Subsonics aren't mentioned here, in 1984 and before they might have used beeswax on them rather than paraffin wax, despite what Cambridge was told when she wrote to them -

https://eley.co.uk/waxing-lyrical-about-22lr-lubricants-beeswax-or-paraffin-wax/

The link you posted states otherwise.

[Cambridgecutie]

Doesn't matter if you're right-handed or even left-handed, but if you're cack-handed like Sheila was there is NO-WAY she would waste time and effort trying to load at least 15 more bullets (assuming it already contained 10) into a tiny .22 magazine.  All this in the midst of a psychotic breakdown too! Far more realistic for her to grab hold of a sharp, pointed cook's knife from the kitchen drawer with which to stab her family to death.

What evidence exists that SC was "cack-handed"?  According to CAL she decorated/painted her flat.  Her nails looked immaculate.

[Cambridgecutie]

I mean in the actual handling of the rifle NGB?  Could he/she load the bullets by hand and then put gloves on to fire the shots leaving no residue on the rifle?   It’s the only explanation I can think of?  That means someone deliberately trying to hide their prints?

Why don't you take yourself off to a gun shop and check it out for yourself.  Loading the cartridges indoors will replicate the situation at WHF.  If my experience is anything to go by you will find no noticeable residue.

[Cambridgecutie]

I mean in the actual handling of the rifle NGB?  Could he/she load the bullets by hand and then put gloves on to fire the shots leaving no residue on the rifle?   It’s the only explanation I can think of?  That means someone deliberately trying to hide their prints?

Well given the rifle contained one print from JB and one from SC what does that tell you?

72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

It tells me both handled the firearm extensively.

[ngb1066]

I mean in the actual handling of the rifle NGB?  Could he/she load the bullets by hand and then put gloves on to fire the shots leaving no residue on the rifle?   It’s the only explanation I can think of?  That means someone deliberately trying to hide their prints?

It would be easy to fire the rifle wearing gloves, but it would be harder to reload it.  I think it is not easy to detect prints on a firearm.  Just because prints were not detected does not necessarily mean gloves were worn.

[Hardy Boy]

Why don't you take yourself off to a gun shop and check it out for yourself.  Loading the cartridges indoors will replicate the situation at WHF.  If my experience is anything to go by you will find no noticeable residue.

I don’t make things up Cutie, I go by evidence at trial?  Was this challenged, if so what was said?

I’m not being awkward, it’s on here for all to see, Curiosity has already said, and I have read the same, Ely has two different coatings they used, one was Bees wax the other Parafin wax, the later I believe is not as greasy?

[Hardy Boy]

It would be easy to fire the rifle wearing gloves, but it would be harder to reload it.  I think it is not easy to detect prints on a firearm.  Just because prints were not detected does not necessarily mean gloves were worn.

Thanks NGB, I’m just going by the evidence at trial, I’m just surprised if it leaves residue on your hands, I would expect it to be transferable to the rifle,  making it more noticeable.  Yes I did know about prints not being easy to detect on firearms, that’s why I thought the wax/oil would help in that department?

[Hardy Boy]

Well given the rifle contained one print from JB and one from SC what does that tell you?

72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

It tells me both handled the firearm extensively.

I know how many prints was found on the rifle, this is why I think the shooter was wearing gloves, I would expect more from handling 25 greasy/oily/wax bullets?   

[Cambridgecutie]

I don’t make things up Cutie, I go by evidence at trial?  Was this challenged, if so what was said?

I’m not being awkward, it’s on here for all to see, Curiosity has already said, and I have read the same, Ely has two different coatings they used, one was Bees wax the other Parafin wax, the later I believe is not as greasy?

But beeswax wasn't used on Eley subsonic.  I have uploaded the technical data several times:

https://eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow/

"Non greasy all weather lubricant"

"Firm hydrocarbon lubricant to reduce residues"

"The round has a paraffin wax lubricant for smooth operation in semi-automatic rifles and improves functioning in all weather conditions".

If the magazine was full, SC only needed to load another 15 cartridges. 

[Curiosity]

But beeswax wasn't used on Eley subsonic.  I have uploaded the technical data several times:

https://eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow/

"Non greasy all weather lubricant"

"Firm hydrocarbon lubricant to reduce residues"

"The round has a paraffin wax lubricant for smooth operation in semi-automatic rifles and improves functioning in all weather conditions".

If the magazine was full, SC only needed to load another 15 cartridges.

That is now, not 39 years ago!

[Cambridgecutie]

That is now, not 39 years ago!

Oh pleeze stop clutching at straws!  I have it in writing that the manufacturing of the subsonic has never changed.

The info you uploaded describes the circumstances under which the two types of lubricant are used.  Beeswax is used for pinpoint accuracy.  Parrafin wax, firmer, is used for semi-autos where numerous rounds are discharged in quick succession which prevents the lubricant/parrafin wax, gunging up the mechanism.

[Hardy Boy]

That is now, not 39 years ago!

You can’t get it through to her, it was shown in Court as being sticky, greasy and leaves residues, but she’s a ammunition expert.  Ely did use two lubricants, bees wax and parrafin wax,

https://eley.co.uk/waxing-lyrical-about-22lr-lubricants-beeswax-or-paraffin-wax/

[Hardy Boy]

Oh pleeze stop clutching at straws!  I have it in writing that the manufacturing of the subsonic has never changed.

The info you uploaded describes the circumstances under which the two types of lubricant are used.  Beeswax is used for pinpoint accuracy.  Parrafin wax, firmer, is used for semi-autos where numerous rounds are discharged in quick succession which prevents the lubricant/parrafin wax, gunging up the mechanism.

No one is clutching at straws, YOU wasn’t at trial and seen the evidence presented, all I’m saying in my mind the shooter must have been wearing gloves, prove I’m wrong.

[Hardy Boy]

But beeswax wasn't used on Eley subsonic.  I have uploaded the technical data several times:

https://eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow/

"Non greasy all weather lubricant"

"Firm hydrocarbon lubricant to reduce residues"

"The round has a paraffin wax lubricant for smooth operation in semi-automatic rifles and improves functioning in all weather conditions".

If the magazine was full, SC only needed to load another 15 cartridges.

22 subsonics have always been similar in the past; below the speed of sound and offered as a hollow point for pest control.



This is designed to give subsonic velocities that function in semi-automatic and other action-types reliability and accurately. Eley state that it’s a 40-grain bullet of round nose design and has a velocity of 1090 fps and 106 ft/lbs energy.
It uses a 40-grain, round-nosed bullet design that has a beeswax/tallow lubricant for reliable feeding through a magazine and when chambering.

[Cambridgecutie]

You can’t get it through to her, it was shown in Court as being sticky, greasy and leaves residues, but she’s a ammunition expert.  Ely did use two lubricants, bees wax and parrafin wax,

https://eley.co.uk/waxing-lyrical-about-22lr-lubricants-beeswax-or-paraffin-wax/

I have never claimed to be an expert but I did take it upon myself to visit a gun shop to check it out for myself.  I then spoke with Eley and received an email confirming the manufacturing of the range had never changed.