Did Jeremy have a reason to put the silencer back into the gun cupboard?

[Cambridgecutie]

Well thats basically what I meant, Cutie!
Why wasn't there enough blood to yield a full profile for Sheila?

Full profile?  The results produced were sufficient to differentiate SC's blood groups from the other victims' blood groups.

[Adam]

Not if the shenanigans took place after Julie came forward, Adam!

The relatives found the silencer on the 9th August. Julie came forward on the 7th September.

[Cambridgecutie]

The Eley tech data states the lubricant is a firm hydrocarbon to reduce residues.

[Cambridgecutie]

Not if the shenanigans took place after Julie came forward, Adam!

- Outside contaminants: blood, hair, paint and scratches.  We are told found by relatives on 10th Aug.

- Inside contaminant: blood.  We are told found by FSS around mid Sep.  After we are told JM came forward.

[snow66!]

- Outside contaminants: blood, hair, paint and scratches.  We are told found by relatives on 10th Aug.

- Inside contaminant: blood.  We are told found by FSS around mid Sep.  After we are told JM came forward.

Yes, we are 'told', Cutie! hair, paint, scratches.
Have you seen all the bonafide contemporary documentation relating to this?
Certainly no mention of hair,paint and scratches in any of the relatives statements prior to sept was there?
What about police notebooks, etc,.?

[Steve_uk]

Yes, we are 'told', Cutie! hair, paint, scratches.
Have you seen all the bonafide contemporary documentation relating to this?
Certainly no mention of hair,paint and scratches in any of the relatives statements prior to sept was there?
What about police notebooks, etc,.?

I think there was mention of a grey hair, which disappeared in transit.

[snow66!]

I think there was mention of a grey hair, which disappeared in transit.

Again, so we are told, Steve!

[ILB]

Surprised you met JB on a cat A wing based on your low level crime?

I didn't meet him when I was 14 you tit haha, I was 25.

[ngb1066]

Was this when using:

https://eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow/

Yes, that is the right ammunition.

[Hardy Boy]

I remember you mentioning this a while ago.  I have to say I am a bit surprised.  There is not much residue but I could always detect some after handling rifle ammunition.

Your right NGB, it was a question raised in Court by Drake, they did have a lubricant on them and it would be expected to show on your hands.  AP said his wife found them Slippery?   I’ve read where target shooting practices used a cloth to wipe their hands when loading the Magazine, the guy across from my house Shoots regular, he said the beeswax bullets felt more greasy,  parrafin wax wasn’t as greasy?   I look after his house while he goes away, his guns are in a special case, I’ve not seen them, he gives me his house alarm number for his house.

So we’ve established that after loading 25 oily bullets with no gloves into a mag, you’d expect to see this oily residue transferred to the rifle stock somewhere?   My guess again the killer was wearing gloves.

At Court

From my experience from loading this type of Magazine and watching others loading this type of magazine, you get VISIBLE residue on your hands from the loading procedure from the material of the bullet and the lubricant on the bullet.



Did you find any traces of oil or residue on the nightdress, A I did not sir.

[Hardy Boy]

How can we rule out NB lending his rifle to some other member of the farming community?  Or some other person who had a legitimate right to borrow/use the rifle?

So you think he let someone have the rifle minus the sights and silencer? 

The sights were removed and the silencer was found in the same box, it’s always been suggested the sights were removed for cleaning, if so why remove the silencer and put in the same box as the sights?  You can clean the sights while attached to the rifle, why go to the trouble removing the sights just to clean?

If Neville took the trouble to clean the sights, why didn’t he clean the rifle, at trial MF said he could tell the rifle had not been cleaned.

[Cambridgecutie]

So you think he let someone have the rifle minus the sights and silencer? 

The sights were removed and the silencer was found in the same box, it’s always been suggested the sights were removed for cleaning, if so why remove the silencer and put in the same box as the sights?  You can clean the sights while attached to the rifle, why go to the trouble removing the sights just to clean?

If Neville took the trouble to clean the sights, why didn’t he clean the rifle, at trial MF said he could tell the rifle had not been cleaned.

Too much is made of the sights and silencer off the rifle.  NB had been farming at WHF some 40 years prior to the murders.  The rifle, sights and silencer were purchased some 20 months pre murders.  What was the firearm of choice for bunny hunting prior to the recent purchase?

[Hardy Boy]

Too much is made of the sights and silencer off the rifle.  NB had been farming at WHF some 40 years prior to the murders.  The rifle, sights and silencer were purchased some 20 months pre murders.  What was the firearm of choice for bunny hunting prior to the recent purchase?

Funny how AP said they looked new a few days before Jeremy shot and killed everyone,   like you said it was purchased some 9 months prior to the murders  in Nov 84 for shooting vermin.

[Cambridgecutie]

Your right NGB, it was a question raised in Court by Drake, they did have a lubricant on them and it would be expected to show on your hands.  AP said his wife found them Slippery?   I’ve read where target shooting practices used a cloth to wipe their hands when loading the Magazine, the guy across from my house Shoots regular, he said the beeswax bullets felt more greasy,  parrafin wax wasn’t as greasy?   I look after his house while he goes away, his guns are in a special case, I’ve not seen them, he gives me his house alarm number for his house.

So we’ve established that after loading 25 oily bullets with no gloves into a mag, you’d expect to see this oily residue transferred to the rifle stock somewhere?   My guess again the killer was wearing gloves.

At Court

From my experience from loading this type of Magazine and watching others loading this type of magazine, you get VISIBLE residue on your hands from the loading procedure from the material of the bullet and the lubricant on the bullet.



Did you find any traces of oil or residue on the nightdress, A I did not sir.

MF claims the residues were black.  Impossible.  Even if there were residues on SC's hand they would not be obviously visible.  Her hands were swabbed but there's no reliable forensic tests for residues from handling cartridges.  The only reliable test is for gsr and a test wasn't carried out to detect this because the swabs had potentially come into contact with a firearm related to another case.  And in any event given SC's hand was in contact with a firearm that had been fired some 25 times and her person in an environment where the firearm had been fired some 13 times they would prove nothing.

Why would SC's nightdress contain any residues other than possibly gsr which wasn't tested for?

[Hardy Boy]

Your right NGB, it was a question raised in Court by Drake, they did have a lubricant on them and it would be expected to show on your hands.  AP said his wife found them Slippery?   I’ve read where target shooting practices used a cloth to wipe their hands when loading the Magazine, the guy across from my house Shoots regular, he said the beeswax bullets felt more greasy,  parrafin wax wasn’t as greasy?   I look after his house while he goes away, his guns are in a special case, I’ve not seen them, he gives me his house alarm number for his house.

So we’ve established that after loading 25 oily bullets with no gloves into a mag, you’d expect to see this oily residue transferred to the rifle stock somewhere?   My guess again the killer was wearing gloves.

At Court

From my experience from loading this type of Magazine and watching others loading this type of magazine, you get VISIBLE residue on your hands from the loading procedure from the material of the bullet and the lubricant on the bullet.



Did you find any traces of oil or residue on the nightdress, A I did not sir.

So, if there was no oil or grease traces on the nightdress, it shows Sheila never wiped her hands on the night dress to remove the Greasy lubricants after handling the greasy cartridges, making it more likely her hands and fingerprints would be transferred to the rifle stock?

Handling greasy bullet cases makes the finger print more Patent, compared to a Latent fingerprint which is your normal hand sweat.  The patent fingerprint would have been visible on the rifle wood/stock and could last for six months.