Prove that the relatives fabricated the evidence

[BarefootDanC]

According to many, probably most, Bamber supporters, the relatives fabricated the sound moderator evidence.

My challenge - prove it

[Cambridgecutie]

According to many, probably most, Bamber supporters, the relatives fabricated the sound moderator evidence.

My challenge - prove it

The idea the relatives fabricated the silencer is a complete non-starter. 

Blood stains outside the silencer human in origin - unlike DS Jones they would lack the knowledge that small stains were incapable of being typed.

Blood stains inside the silencer human in origin - unlike FSS, DS Jones and the relatives would lack the knowledge about SC's blood groups and the drawback phenonmenon.  Neither DS Jones or the relatives had access to SC's blood.  A pair of menstrual stained knickers left soaking in a bucket of water does not produce blood in the quantity and quality required for any sort of test available in 1985/6.

Also the relatives did not have access to soc images.  They could not be sure the underside of the Aga surround had not been photographed. 

[David1819]

We only have circumstantial evidence and logical inferences. But there is enough to satisfy me that the relatives (or a relative) was responsible.

Unless the relatives break ranks (which is very unlikely). We will never get a smoking gun.

[BarefootDanC]

The idea the relatives fabricated the silencer is a complete non-starter. 

Blood stains outside the silencer human in origin - unlike DS Jones they would lack the knowledge that small stains were incapable of being typed.

Blood stains inside the silencer human in origin - unlike FSS, DS Jones and the relatives would lack the knowledge about SC's blood groups and the drawback phenonmenon.  Neither DS Jones or the relatives had access to SC's blood.  A pair of menstrual stained knickers left soaking in a bucket of water does not produce blood in the quantity and quality required for any sort of test available in 1985/6.

Also the relatives did not have access to soc images.  They could not be sure the underside of the Aga surround had not been photographed.

You make the very good and very important point that the relatives wouldn't have had the knowledge about blood forensics which many conspiracy theories need to assume that they did have.

Although Robert Boutflour's blood happens to give the same tests results as Sheila's, they would have had absolutely no knowledge of this. Without knowledge of blood groupings etc and forensics, they couldn't possible have known that if they planted their own blood in or on the sound moderator that it would be a match for any of the victims!

[Cambridgecutie]

We only have circumstantial evidence and logical inferences. But there is enough to satisfy me that the relatives (or a relative) was responsible.

Unless the relatives break ranks (which is very unlikely). We will never get a smoking gun.

But you are not the CCRC/CoA.  And unlike you it is unlikely they suffer from learning difficulties. 

We will never get a smoking gun from the relatives as one does not exist to be found.

[BarefootDanC]

We only have circumstantial evidence and logical inferences. But there is enough to satisfy me that the relatives (or a relative) was responsible.

Unless the relatives break ranks (which is very unlikely). We will never get a smoking gun.

Can you even prove that it was the relatives (or a relative) on balance of probability?

[David1819]

You make the very good and very important point that the relatives wouldn't have had the knowledge about blood forensics which many conspiracy theories need to assume that they did have.

Although Robert Boutflour's blood happens to give the same tests results as Sheila's, they would have had absolutely no knowledge of this. Without knowledge of blood groupings etc and forensics, they couldn't possible have known that if they planted their own blood in or on the sound moderator that it would be a match for any of the victims!

They had unrestricted and unsupervised access to the scene that still contained a lot of blood. They took Sheila's blood stained clothes back to Oak farm. There was still visible blood on the bedside lampshade in the main bedroom that the FSS noted in 2000.

[David1819]

Can you even prove that it was the relatives (or a relative) on balance of probability?

You mean like in a civil case? Yes I believe so.

[Cambridgecutie]

They had unrestricted and unsupervised access to the scene that still contained a lot of blood. They took Sheila's blood stained clothes back to Oak farm. There was still visible blood on the bedside lampshade in the main bedroom that the FSS noted in 2000.

1. What blood was left at soc?
2. A pair of menstrual stained knickers left soaking in a bucket of water is not blood. 
3. Evidence.  If there was any blood left within the bedroom it begs the question why the FSS had to ask SC's birth mother and another to provide blood samples for the LCN DNA testing in 2001.  Also PB was asked to provide a blood sample in connection with June.

It has been pointed out to you numerous times that the type of testing carried out in 1985/6 based on blood serology requires good quality sample of a certain quantity.  Converseley, LCN DNA testing can produce results from poorly degraded samples invisible to the naked eye. 

[Bubo bubo]

They had unrestricted and unsupervised access to the scene that still contained a lot of blood. They took Sheila's blood stained clothes back to Oak farm. There was still visible blood on the bedside lampshade in the main bedroom that the FSS noted in 2000.

Ignoring the SC clothes in the buckets for a moment it is possible that AE could have found a small stain/flake of blood that could only have belonged to SC when she was cleaning up etc. Not all of the carpets were destroyed. I have no fixed view on the origins of the flake but from what we have on the forum there is no reference to who found it in the SM and when.

[Cambridgecutie]

You make the very good and very important point that the relatives wouldn't have had the knowledge about blood forensics which many conspiracy theories need to assume that they did have.

Although Robert Boutflour's blood happens to give the same tests results as Sheila's, they would have had absolutely no knowledge of this. Without knowledge of blood groupings etc and forensics, they couldn't possible have known that if they planted their own blood in or on the sound moderator that it would be a match for any of the victims!

But when you consider 8% of the unrelated white British population shared SC's (and RWB's) blood groups it is unsurprising that RWB's blood groups matched SC's.  Statistically at least one of the regular posters here will share those groups.  And at least one member of the jury shared those groups.  Oh and at least one member of the CT and the hangers on would share those groups. 

Also the drawback phenomenon, even today, is very esoteric.  The relatives cannot possibly have known about it.  Nor could they have known what images existed of the underside of the Aga surround.

Racing cert - DS Jones - blood outside, paint, scratches and hair

Racing cert - FSS - blood test results inside

[Cambridgecutie]

Ignoring the SC clothes in the buckets for a moment it is possible that AE could have found a small stain/flake of blood that could only have belonged to SC when she was cleaning up etc. Not all of the carpets were destroyed. I have no fixed view on the origins of the flake but from what we have on the forum there is no reference to who found it in the SM and when.

Where?  How would she know it originated from SC?  How would she have known about the drawback phenomenon?  More nonsense.

[David1819]

Ignoring the SC clothes in the buckets for a moment it is possible that AE could have found a small stain/flake of blood that could only have belonged to SC when she was cleaning up etc. Not all of the carpets were destroyed. I have no fixed view on the origins of the flake but from what we have on the forum there is no reference to who found it in the SM and when.

Yes, its possible. Its also possible that she could have contaminated it June and Nevills blood.

[Cambridgecutie]

Yes, its possible. Its also possible that she could have contaminated it June and Nevills blood.

Most things are possible but far less are plausible.  The idea that AE found June and NB's blood and contaminated the silencer with such is not only implausible its drifting off into lala land. 

[Bubo bubo]

Where?  How would she know it originated from SC?  How would she have known about the drawback phenomenon? More nonsense and evidence of learning disabilities.

An exceptionally rude reply and totally uncalled for. SC had a treated wound on her abdomen. She may have bled in her bedroom as a result of some event/accident.