Author Topic: The AGA burns revisited.  (Read 7021 times)

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Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #150 on: April 26, 2025, 12:09:PM »


I have also never understood why PE and CN camped overnight in CN's campervan

Each to their own  :)
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Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #151 on: April 26, 2025, 03:23:PM »
The only thing to me which signals they MAY have been done by a signs of life test is that there are three burns in sharp prescion Which would show the killer tested twice before and wasn't satisfied.

But if JB was trying to set up " crazy lost the plot shelia" this is 360 turn in doing so. Someone who would do this if this is what happened is someone thinking calm clear and logically.

A pulse check would have been the best bet though.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2025, 03:25:PM by ILB »
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Offline snow66!

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #152 on: April 26, 2025, 09:22:PM »
The only thing to me which signals they MAY have been done by a signs of life test is that there are three burns in sharp prescion Which would show the killer tested twice before and wasn't satisfied.

But if JB was trying to set up " crazy lost the plot shelia" this is 360 turn in doing so. Someone who would do this if this is what happened is someone thinking calm clear and logically.

A pulse check would have been the best bet though.
Spot on, ILB, now you're talking my language! Just why on earth would Sheila be burning Nevills back!
Personally,the more I think about it the more I believe the Aga made the marks.
There simply wasn't any rational reason for either JB nor Sheila to burn Nevills back, no reason whatsoever.
I mean, when did the killer even get the chance to inflict the burns? Well obviously it must have been after Nevill was resting on the scuttle?
After all, the evidence seems to show that Nevill was being shot as he ran down stairs heading for the kitchen, so definately no time to inflict three burns in a straight line at that time surely?
So Nevill has been pursued to the kitchen having probably been shot twice in the face and twice in the arm/shoulder, ending up on the scuttle at deaths door.
Now, the two suggestions we get, are that either Nevill sustained the marks at this stage checking to see if he was dead or as a form of torture.
Now I cant work out why the killer wouldn't just shoot Nevill in the head to make sure he was dead, you could argue that JB didn't want to use more bullets than neccessary to point more to Sheila as the killer, but all the other victims had recieved several shots anyway, so why suddenly worry about the bullet count, besides, the killer went on to put four more bullets into Nevill anyway! Its just nonsense!
And what about the claim that the marks were a form of torture? Well reading about the severity of the face shots and the fact that Nevill had an overlapping fracture to his arm I dont really think a few burns to his back could make things much worse painwise anyway!
As for heating the end of the rifle, how was this done? What is the claim? Was it heated in the oven or on the hot plates on the top?
Even inflicting the wounds using the rifle wouldn't be easy, the killer would be holding the rifle straight up and down with their arms outstretched above Nevills body! And keep them in a straight line too? And as Adam says, in this scenario the killer would have to lift Nevills pyjama top and then replace it!
No, I think sooner or later it will be widely accepted that the Aga did indeed cause the burns to Nevills back. The marks are simply too near to the spacings of the Aga handles to be coincidence, surely?
Now I can understand those who think Bamber is guilty being afraid to accept the evidence as it suggests  either a guilty Sheila or police interference, but what I cant understand is Bamberettes [as Steve calls us] dismissing the Aga evidence so readily.
The likes of Cutie wont entertain the Aga evidence at all, but if the Aga made the marks, this in no way goes against her theory about JB being framed! On the contrary, it backs up her theory that Sheilas blood was planted in the silencer! Had to be if the Aga burns point to an innocent Bamber, which in my opinion they do!
So, there you are ILB, I will continue to believe that the Aga made the marks, and probably always will, even if the powers that be reject the claim!

Offline snow66!

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #153 on: April 27, 2025, 11:45:PM »
And it is worth asking again, just when were the burns inflicted to Nevills back?
That is, at what stage was the massacre at when the killer 'allegedly' inflicted them?
From a JB guilt point of view, was June and Sheila still alive or had JB gone back up stairs and shot them first?
Surely JB wouldn't leave Sheila and a badly wounded June upstairs for 5-10 minutes while he heated an implement and burned Nevill?
And if the boys had also been shot too before Nevill was chased downstairs as claimed then the rifle would be empty and need re-loading. So surely no time to play about burning Nevill at that stage?
So, I suppose the question we have to ask is what condition did JB leave Nevill in the kitchen before going back upstairs to finish off June and kill Sheila? Surely Nevill was at least unconcious draped over the scuttle, JB couldn't have him taking off!
So, apparently JB beat Nevill unconcious before re-loading the rifle and rushing back upstairs to finish off June and then kill Sheila.
So then JB goes back downstairs and instead of simply shooting Nevill in the head like he has done with everyone else and scarper real sharpish, he decides to heat up some metal object and apparently check to see if Nevill is still alive!
And if this is the case, then surely Nevill 'WAS' still alive, else JB would not have shot him in the head would he? Else what exactly was the purpose of wasting time checking for signs of life in the first place?
And JB then shoots Nevill not once, but four times! Wow!
Or was it torture? But why waste time trying to torture someone that you had just beaten unconcious?
And of course at some stage the boys had to receive further headshots too with this scenario, else there wouldn't be enough bullets for everyone with the first magazine!
So has anyone else a different view of when the burns could have been inflicted in a JB guilt scenario?
Or do you simply continue to say the marks on Nevills back are of no importance whatsoever?

Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #154 on: April 28, 2025, 12:20:AM »
What order Bamber did things after the kitchen fight, was up to him.

As usual, options for him.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #155 on: April 28, 2025, 11:05:AM »
What order Bamber did things after the kitchen fight, was up to him.

As usual, options for him.

Do you believe he made himself a coffee and put his feet up for ten before cycling over the sea wall back to goldhanger?

Maybe he stopped from a burger at the BBQ on the sea wall but couldn't be positively ID'd
« Last Edit: April 28, 2025, 11:11:AM by ILB »
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Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #156 on: April 28, 2025, 11:15:AM »
Travelling in pitch black conditions on a ladies sit up and beg bike over land in the middle of the night

Hedgetrimmers

Wetsuits

Crashing through windows

A barking dog

It's madness

« Last Edit: April 28, 2025, 11:15:AM by ILB »
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Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #157 on: April 28, 2025, 11:33:AM »
If he re loaded with 8 bullets, he could shoot Nevill 4 more times. Which would only take a few more seconds.

Then go upstairs and fire two shots into June & two shots into Sheia. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline snow66!

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #158 on: April 28, 2025, 11:37:AM »
If he re loaded with 8 bullets, he could shoot Nevill 4 more times. Which would only take a few more seconds.

Then go upstairs and fire two shots into June & two shots into Sheia.
So, at what stage did JB burn Nevills back do you think, Adam?
You have always said a JB guilt scenario fits the evidence perfectly!

Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #159 on: April 28, 2025, 11:37:AM »
After putting the silencer away he would heat the instrument he planned to burn Nevill's back with.

While this was heating he could re load the rifle with another 6-8 bullets then go upstairs and shoot the twins.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #160 on: April 28, 2025, 11:40:AM »
In my view he had lifted Nevill onto the coal scuttle/chair prior to shots 5-8.

This was to get good head shots. Nevill was also in the perfect position to have his back burnt.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #161 on: April 28, 2025, 11:42:AM »
This is just one scenario after the kitchen fight.

He may have re loaded and gone upstairs and just shot the twins 6-8 times.

June negated & Sheila still sleeping were shot later.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2025, 11:44:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #162 on: April 28, 2025, 11:51:AM »
All that is certain is that he had to do two re loads after the kitchen fight.

The order of his post fight shots was up to him.

With Nevill & June negated, the twins asleep/negated & Sheila probably still sleeping he would feel in control.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2025, 11:52:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline snow66!

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #163 on: April 28, 2025, 12:32:PM »
This is just one scenario after the kitchen fight.

He may have re loaded and gone upstairs and just shot the twins 6-8 times.

June negated & Sheila still sleeping were shot later.
Really ? Sheila was left sleeping and June was scrambling about wounded in the bedroom while JB beat Nevill, put the silencer back, shot the twins and burned Nevills back?
Oh well, it was lucky that Sheila didn't wake up, and that June remained in the bedroom for 15-20 minutes while all this was going on!

Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #164 on: April 28, 2025, 01:10:PM »
In my view he had lifted Nevill onto the coal scuttle/chair prior to shots 5-8.


Nevills position the way he was found most unusual. In my opinion.

On a upturned chair with his face planted on the coal scuttle.

Don't see why Bamber would place him there for the head shots.

If he managed to place him there it already points to him being severely incapacitated at the stage.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2025, 01:13:PM by ILB »
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me