The AGA burns revisited.

[Cambridgecutie]

Did Stan quietly let them know he had contaminated the outside of the silencer, and was it a joint enterprise between them all, or was it Stan doing his dirty deeds and then the FSS doing theirs unbeknown to each other?

Certainly think DS Jones and FSS were unaware of each other's involvement.

But I'm not sure about DS Jones and the relatives.  And if the latter were involved was it one or the lot?

[snow66!]

It highlights that the AGA argument on its own merit won't prove the convictions unsafe as many of us already know.

OK, I asked chatGPT about Philip Boyce's Aga burn evidence, once using the reason button and then using both the reason button and the web.
I got two completely different replies-

1.There has been speculation about whether the burn marks on Nevill Bamber's back were caused by the hot handles of the Aga cooker at White House Farm.A forensic scientist,Philip Boyce conducted an experiment using pig skin to test this theory. His findings suggested that it was possible the burns were caused by contact with the Aga rather than the hot end of the rifle, as originally believed, if this theory is corredt, it could imply that Nevills body was moved after the police arrived at the scrne, potentially altering the evidence.

2. [using the web too]  Conclusion-Given the constellation of controlled ballistic experiments by Dr Caruso, Mr Manlove and Mr Boyce-all of which reproduce the burn marks using the rifle barrel- and the absence of any empirical support for the Aga hypothesis, it is highly unlikely that the stove, rather than the firearm, caused Nevill Bambers burns.

[Hardy Boy]

Certainly think DS Jones and FSS were unaware of each other's involvement.

But I'm not sure about DS Jones and the relatives.  And if the latter were involved was it one or the lot?

So if we do a recap, Stan had a few drinks with PE who then promised him a bung to climb through WHF and contaminate the silencer with his own blood, he then leaves it in the gun cupboard for the rest of the relatives to find (we’re not quite sure if they had a pop at it as well) but anyway, they  then hand it back to Stan at the station, who then sends it for testing, the FSS in their wisdom decide to further contaminate the inside of the silencer not knowing Stan had already contaminated the outside of of the silencer.

[Cambridgecutie]

So if we do a recap, Stan had a few drinks with PE who then promised him a bung to climb through WHF and contaminate the silencer with his own blood, he then leaves it in the gun cupboard for the rest of the relatives to find (we’re not quite sure if they had a pop at it as well) but anyway, they  then hand it back to Stan at the station, who then sends it for testing, the FSS in their wisdom decide to further contaminate the inside of the silencer not knowing Stan had already contaminated the outside of of the silencer.

Why would DS Jones need to climb through any windows after he sat drinking whisky with PE at a time the silencer had already been found? 

The FSS did not come up with the test results for the inside until a month after the outside was analysed. 

[Hardy Boy]

Why would DS Jones need to climb through any windows after he sat drinking whisky with PE at a time the silencer had already been found? 

The FSS did not come up with the test results for the inside until a month after the outside was analysed.

Ok I will do a different recap fior you……. Stan decides to climb through the window at WHF and contaminate the outside of the silencer with his own blood,  he then leaves it in the gun cupboard for the relatives to find………. or, the relatives have already found the silencer (not sure if they contaminated it) but over a few drinks, PE offers Stan a bung to take the silencer back to his office and contaminate the outside of the  silencer with his own blood, he then sends it for testing, the FSS in their wisdom decide to further contaminate the inside of the silencer not knowing Stan had already contaminated the outside of the silencer.  Is that about right?

[Cambridgecutie]

Ok I will do a different recap fior you……. Stan decides to climb through the window at WHF and contaminate the outside of the silencer with his own blood,  he then leaves it in the gun cupboard for the relatives to find………. or, the relatives have already found the silencer (not sure if they contaminated it) but over a few drinks, PE offers Stan a bung to take the silencer back to his office and contaminate the outside of the  silencer with his own blood, he then sends it for testing, the FSS in their wisdom decide to further contaminate the inside of the silencer not knowing Stan had already contaminated the outside of the silencer.  Is that about right?

No.

[Steve_uk]

Ok I will do a different recap fior you……. Stan decides to climb through the window at WHF and contaminate the outside of the silencer with his own blood,  he then leaves it in the gun cupboard for the relatives to find………. or, the relatives have already found the silencer (not sure if they contaminated it) but over a few drinks, PE offers Stan a bung to take the silencer back to his office and contaminate the outside of the  silencer with his own blood, he then sends it for testing, the FSS in their wisdom decide to further contaminate the inside of the silencer not knowing Stan had already contaminated the outside of the silencer.  Is that about right?

But doesn't the person doing the contaminating have to know Sheila's blood type?

[Hardy Boy]

But doesn't the person doing the contaminating have to know Sheila's blood type?

I don’t know Steve, it’s Cuties theory not mine?

[ILB]

But doesn't the person doing the contaminating have to know Sheila's blood type?

That is a good point in fairness.

[Cambridgecutie]

Yes, Cutie said Stan planted it on for the relatives to find?

Either DS Jones carried out the deed and left it for the relatives to find OR more likely, imo, DS Jones contaminated it after he collected it from Oak Farm having sat drinking whisky with PE into the small hours.  The latter would account for the fact the relatives were very quiet about it for some considerable time and their conflicting accounts as to who was present when it was found, what exactly was observed and when etc, etc.

[Cambridgecutie]

Ok I will do a different recap fior you……. Stan decides to climb through the window at WHF and contaminate the outside of the silencer with his own blood,  he then leaves it in the gun cupboard for the relatives to find………. or, the relatives have already found the silencer (not sure if they contaminated it) but over a few drinks, PE offers Stan a bung to take the silencer back to his office and contaminate the outside of the  silencer with his own blood, he then sends it for testing, the FSS in their wisdom decide to further contaminate the inside of the silencer not knowing Stan had already contaminated the outside of the silencer.  Is that about right?

When you state "own blood" it appears to me you are saying it with incredulity?  40 years ago there was no DNA evidence.  The likes of DS Jones would not have even envisaged such. But as an experienced officer he would know only too well that small blood stains, as featured on the outside of the silencer, were incapable of revealing anything other than confirming the stain was human blood.  How better to get the ball rolling than connect the soc (SC's found position) with an implement (silencer) found in a cupboard far removed from her body.  Its classic methodology used by the police to fit up a chief suspect especially pre-pace.

[Cambridgecutie]

And you don’t know that DS Jones contaminated the silencer,  we only have your word for this.

And you don't know that it wasn't.

[Hardy Boy]

Either DS Jones carried out the deed and left it for the relatives to find OR more likely, imo, DS Jones contaminated it after he collected it from Oak Farm having sat drinking whisky with PE into the small hours.  The latter would account for the fact the relatives were very quiet about it for some considerable time and their conflicting accounts as to who was present when it was found, what exactly was observed and when etc, etc.

Your linking three separate individuals (organisations) all with the ulterior motive to frame Bamber, Stan, because he wanted to play God and took a bung, so if Stan took a bung the family must have been involved, the family because they wanted to frame Bamber for the murders and the FSS because (was it contamination) all went along to frame a innocent man because that’s how it was done. In other words you talk utter garbage.

[Cambridgecutie]

Your linking three separate individuals (organisations) all with the ulterior motive to frame Bamber, Stan, because he wanted to play God and took a bung, so if Stan took a bung the family must have been involved, the family because they wanted to frame Bamber for the murders and the FSS because (was it contamination) all went along to frame a innocent man because that’s how it was done. In other words you talk utter garbage.

If we are to believe you the words 'miscarriage of justice' do not exist but alas we know in reality they do.

They did not all go along to frame an innocent mean.  They all believed he was guilty but because there was no evidence of such they invented some! 

If we rewind to pre Stefan Kiszko acquittal you would no doubt be repeating the above.  But in reality we know 4 female teenage lay witnesses lied and we know a police officer and forensic scientist went on to be charged with perverting the course of justice.  The fact the forensic scientist went on to head up the lab at FSS Huntingdon when the Bamber exhibits were under examination should concern everyone including you!  I am reminded of paedophile priests that were allowed to move around the church with impunity. 

[Cambridgecutie]

Your linking three separate individuals (organisations) all with the ulterior motive to frame Bamber, Stan, because he wanted to play God and took a bung, so if Stan took a bung the family must have been involved, the family because they wanted to frame Bamber for the murders and the FSS because (was it contamination) all went along to frame a innocent man because that’s how it was done. In other words you talk utter garbage.

Several family members make up "the family".  Some of whom are only related to JB by way of marriage and all of whom are related to JB by way of adoption. 

It could be that DS Jones and PE decided on the silencer strategy when the pair sat up drinking whisky into the small hours when the silencer was collected from Oak Farm.  The others might have been told they had overlooked the 'found' contaminants and then went along with it believing perhaps they were genuine.  This would account for their very different accounts of who found what, when and how etc.

I have also never understood why PE and CN camped overnight in CN's campervan on the night of 10th Aug after the alarm had been fitted and the valuables removed?  Why only 10th Aug?  Why not 9th Aug after soc was released back to JB/family and valuable remained in-situ?