The AGA burns revisited.

[Jane]

Thanks for your opinion on the matter, Jane, but time will tell.
Well, hopefully, if the CCRC ever make a decision!

That's a bit of a cop out, isn't it, Snow? Can you please clarify where you believe/suggest Nevill was when you claim he "was initially smashed on the forehead..............before regaining consciousness...............only to be chased back to the kitchen"? I'd like to be clear on where you're saying he came from, then returned to before "being chased back to the kitchen".

[snow66!]

Well you carry on with your stupid little game, you are simply making yourself look the idiot you are.  If anything,  you’re hurting Bamber,  because it shows the lack of intelligence and the length his supporters go to for him.

I cant see how i'm hurting Bamber in any way. HB, after all, I didn't come up with the Aga theory, I am merely fitting a possible scenario around it, something that will have to be done anyway if the CCRC accept Boyces evidence.
You see, if it is accepted that the Aga made the marks on the night of the murder you have two choices, HB, either accept that the police moved Nevill or accept a scenario similar to mine.
And what if it is proven that the police did not move Nevill?

[snow66!]

That's a bit of a cop out, isn't it, Snow? Can you please clarify where you believe/suggest Nevill was when you claim he "was initially smashed on the forehead..............before regaining consciousness...............only to be chased back to the kitchen"? I'd like to be clear on where you're saying he came from, then returned to before "being chased back to the kitchen".

Its all in my first post, Jane! And many other posts I have done over the years!
It all kicks off in the kitchen, Nevill finds Sheila with the rifle, Nevill is knocked out by the Aga, Sheila kills June and the boys, Nevill regains consciousness about 3.00 and phones JB before going up stairs, Nevill is shot in face and forced back to the kitchen where he is finished off, ending up on the chair/scuttle.

[Hardy Boy]

I cant see how i'm hurting Bamber in any way. HB, after all, I didn't come up with the Aga theory, I am merely fitting a possible scenario around it, something that will have to be done anyway if the CCRC accept Boyces evidence.
You see, if it is accepted that the Aga made the marks on the night of the murder you have two choices, HB, either accept that the police moved Nevill or accept a scenario similar to mine.
And what if it is proven that the police did not move Nevill?

Yes right.

[Jane]

OK,read it all now, HB.
Yes, they did discuss concussion, but that was in relation to the blow to the top of the head by the rifle barrel once Nevill was chased down stairs by Sheila, that blow didn't even cause a fracture.
As I said, I believe the blow to the eyes/brow which caused the severe fractures were addministered much earlier by the rifle stock, sending Nevill to the floor.
All the other wounds were caused by the rifle barrel in the kitchen once Nevill was shot in the face and arm!
Yes, it all fits!
No need to beat Nevill to a pulp when he was chased to the kitchen after being shot, he was at deaths door anyway, merely holding up his one good arm to be prodded and whacked by the rifle barrel before losing consciousness and stumbling onto the chair/scuttle to be shot!
Yes, thats how it must have happened, Nevill initially smashed in the forehead and knocked cold which broke the rifle stock, before regaining consiousness later on, only to be chased back to the kitchen where he was beaten with the rifle barrel then shot.
Yes, thats what the injuries show, HB, please accept this!

Its all in my first post, Jane! And many other posts I have done over the years!
It all kicks off in the kitchen, Nevill finds Sheila with the rifle, Nevill is knocked out by the Aga, Sheila kills June and the boys, Nevill regains consciousness about 3.00 and phones JB before going up stairs, Nevill is shot in face and forced back to the kitchen where he is finished off, ending up on the chair/scuttle.

That's not how it reads!

[snow66!]

That's not how it reads!

Sorry I dont make my scenarios very clear, Jane, but you know my writing skills are not on a par with the likes of Steve nor yourself.
Hope you get the general idea now though!

[snow66!]

Was the blood stains on the rifle and the outside of the sliencer human, and if so, did forensics match them to anyone?
What does KM positive mean? Is this just a test to establish that a stain is indeed blood?

[BarefootDanC]

Was the blood stains on the rifle and the outside of the sliencer human, and if so, did forensics match them to anyone?
What does KM positive mean? Is this just a test to establish that a stain is indeed blood?

KM positive means that the stain is blood (as opposed to the red stain on the end of the moderator which was KM negative as this was red paint).

I don't think the blood stains on the rifles were tested for this, but blood "on and in the moderator was tested and found to be human in origin".

Surely the blood on the rifle couldn't have been animal blood!

[snow66!]

KM positive means that the stain is blood (as opposed to the red stain on the end of the moderator which was KM negative as this was red paint).

I don't think the blood stains on the rifles were tested for this, but blood "on and in the moderator was tested and found to be human in origin".

Surely the blood on the rifle couldn't have been animal blood!

Thanks Dan! I was just trying to work out whose blood was on the rifle and how it got there.
It says in the Archives on the forum here that the blood stains are KM positive on the rifle too.
Not sure though that the KM test proves that it is human though, although in this case, as you say, it is more than likely.

[Hardy Boy]

Thanks Dan! I was just trying to work out whose blood was on the rifle and how it got there.
It says in the Archives on the forum here that the blood stains are KM positive on the rifle too.
Not sure though that the KM test proves that it is human though, although in this case, as you say, it is more than likely.

So, if we forget who’s blood was on or inside the silencer, makes you wonder who had the most to lose if it was found and why it was hidden?

[Cambridgecutie]

KM positive means that the stain is blood (as opposed to the red stain on the end of the moderator which was KM negative as this was red paint).

I don't think the blood stains on the rifles were tested for this, but blood "on and in the moderator was tested and found to be human in origin".

Surely the blood on the rifle couldn't have been animal blood!

I have posted the following for you and others over and over again along with a sketch of the rifle describing the size of each stain:

71. The rifle bore blood smearing on the barrel in the region of the fore-sight and around the mechanism and there were splashes of blood to the left side of the weapon. The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding. On analysis the blood was found to be human blood but tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful. A "pull-through" on the barrel of the rifle was conducted for any traces of blood within the weapon. There were none.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

[Cambridgecutie]

So, if we forget who’s blood was on or inside the silencer, makes you wonder who had the most to lose if it was found and why it was hidden?

It wasn't hidden.  WHF firearms and all the paraphernalia were kept in the downstairs office/den and in particular the cupboard under the stairs. 

[snow66!]

I have posted the following for you and others over and over again along with a sketch of the rifle describing the size of each stain:

71. The rifle bore blood smearing on the barrel in the region of the fore-sight and around the mechanism and there were splashes of blood to the left side of the weapon. The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding. On analysis the blood was found to be human blood but tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful. A "pull-through" on the barrel of the rifle was conducted for any traces of blood within the weapon. There were none.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

Thanks Cutie, I couldn't have been paying full attention!
None of the stains are very big are they? Hardly splashed with blood from an alleged beating?

[snow66!]

So, if we forget who’s blood was on or inside the silencer, makes you wonder who had the most to lose if it was found and why it was hidden?

Do you think that was Bambers plan all along HB, to use the silencer then put it back in the cupboatd?

[Jane]

Do you think that was Bambers plan all along HB, to use the silencer then put it back in the cupboatd?

I doubt it occurred to him until the moment he realized it was too long to enable Sheila to shoot herself. It was an "Ooops!" moment!